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1942.2 All ships cost 2 ipcs less

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Midnight_Reaper 2026 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 @Imperious Leader
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@Imperious-Leader said in 1942.2 All ships cost 2 ipcs less:

The wholescale reduction benefits Allied players who have more money to spend, and require a large naval presence to establish themselves.

And if 1942.2 is biased towards the Axis, wouldn’t that in turn help return things to a balance?

-Midnight_Reaper
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Imperious Leader 17 16 15 Organizer 14 Customizer 13 12 11 10
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1942 online Allied players know how to suppress that advantage, and making cheap navy establishes them faster, while the Axis are focused on Land units and not spending money on navies. The cheap ship thing is to benefit players who love “who has the biggest toy boat fleet just sitting around Alaska forcing Japan to park and buy unnecessary boats 3 spaces away for the duration of the game”
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Navalland @Imperious Leader
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@Imperious-Leader which set up do 1942 online players mostly prefer?
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Imperious Leader 17 16 15 Organizer 14 Customizer 13 12 11 10
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Larry Harris Gen-con Setup, so Germany can lose the fighter and bomber in Ukraine and make it even.
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Navalland @Imperious Leader
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@Imperious-Leader I have read even in Larry Harris Gen-con Setup set up, some people still give Allies 6 bid what do you think?
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Imperious Leader 17 16 15 Organizer 14 Customizer 13 12 11 10
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No . No allies bid. Play 1942 Online and see what we do.
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Navalland
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What if Russian attack on Ukraine fails? Could Allies still win at that point?
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Imperious Leader 17 16 15 Organizer 14 Customizer 13 12 11 10
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That depends on what you term fail? If they commit 3 tanks 2 fighters and Caucasus units and don’t kill the tanks and or at least a plane, then that attack is a fail, but nobody unless hes a fool will say “Game over- insert 50 cents- do not pass go” Alot of other battles and an accumulation of advantages over turns is what you want. Of course the “Big Battle at Moscow” could change the fortunes of either side. Go to steam and enter my name and #2799 and we can play a game.
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[Anniversary] Tanks Cost at 6

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• • • Erocco

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I so far think that tanks costing 5 IPCs is very solid.

This actually makes the tank a worthwhile investment. For instance:

for 15 IPCs you can buy 5 infantry or 3 tanks. Based on average dice rolls:
5 infantry would hit 0.85 times on offense, 1.65 times on defense
3 tanks would hit 1.5 times on offense, 1.5 times on defense.

The defensive values are similar, meaning that infantry on defense is still a better investment since there are more of them, they can absorb more hits from attacking tanks! Personally all this does is take tanks and makes them a considered buy instead of the ol’ infantry only buy since tanks in older versions of the game were so neutered on defense. They are now equal value to infantry because what you are paying extra for is the increased mobility. Even looking at the numbers for if 5 infantry attack the three tanks, it is very close, with a slight advantage given to the defending tanks.

So we are still seeing that if money invested is equal, defense has an advantage as far as infantry and tanks are concerned.

Also if we increase the money to 35 IPCs and our purchases now include artillery:
5 infantry
5 Artillery (combined offensive of 3.3 hits and 3.3 hits on defense)

7 tanks 3.5 hits on offense, 3.5 on defense

If the tanks attack the infantry and artillery on average the 10 unit stack will win, with 3-4 pieces remaining.

If the infantry and artillery attack, on average they can still win with 3-4 units remaining. So artillery tip the balance of power over to infantry again with their ability to raise the infantry’s attack.

Tanks literally are costing more solely for movement capability, a tank only purchase strategy only works if you have the economy to spend more money than the other guy. If the money spent is equal, tanks still lose.
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Shifting UK IPCs between the European and Pacific economy (A&A 1940)

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• • • The Hessian

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Indeed!
The “Empire Highway to India” must be controlled by the Allies.

And maybe the risk of loosing 4 of 5 transferred IPCs is compensation enough for the option to support the defence of India or gain assistance in the Battle of Britain.
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Baron Munchhausen's Complete Roster for play-testing with 2-planes carrier

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• • • baron Münchhausen

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@Baron:

Here is all the main A&A units roster including the new Sub unit A3 D1 C7 (with less radical changes than my previous post on 3-planes Carrier, but the 3-planes carrier and Fg at 6 IPCs is my preferred ones http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35222.msg1374545#msg1374545) with a summary of their special abilities (which some are house ruled):

ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY A0 D0 NCM1 Cost 3, 1 hit,
1 @1 preemptive against up to 1 plane, able to fire against plane each combat round.

INFANTRY A1-2 D2 M1 Cost 3
Get +1A if paired 1:1 with Artillery or Mechanized Artillery or Heavy Artillery

MECHANIZED INFANTRY A1-2 D2 M2 Cost 4,
Get +1 if paired 1:1 with Artillery or Mechanized Artillery or Heavy Artillery
Can Blitz when paired 1:1 with a Tank

ARTILLERY A2 D2 M1 Cost 4
Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry

(ANTI-TANK GUN) A1 D3 M1 Cost 4 added for completeness
Gives +1D to 1 Infantry only, no Mechanized Infantry
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35315.msg1380075#msg1380075

(HEAVY ARTILLERY) A3 D2 M1 Cost 5 added for completeness
Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry

(MECHANIZED ARTILLERY) (Self-Propelled Artillery / Assault Gun) A2-3 D2-3 M2 Cost 5 added for completeness
Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry when paired 1:1 with.
Tank Hunter as a Tank Support capacity: gets +1A/D when paired 1:1 with a Tank.
Both bonus can work at the same time.

TANK A3 D3 M2 Cost 6
Can Blitz or allow Mechanized Infantry and Mechanized Artillery to blitz on 1:1 or 1:1:1 basis.
Gives +1A/D to Mechanized Artillery when paired 1:1 with
Gives +1A/D to Tactical Bomber when paired 1:1 with
One bonus can work at the time.

SUBMARINES A3 D1 M2 Cost 7
Surprise Strike, (blocked when at least 1 Destroyer or Anti-Sub Vessel is present),
Submerge, instead of rolling for a Surprise Strike attack (blocked by ASV on a 1:1 basis for the first combat round only),
Stealth Movement: No Hostile Sea-Zone (except ASV can block Submarine Stealth movement on 1:1 basis),
Cannot hit airplanes,
Can hit Transports before Warships (even when there is other escorting warships, but it is the owner’s choice to pick or not Transport unit as casualty).
(Added to recreate opportunity for an Atlantic Battle in 1942.2 and also to reduce the effectiveness of Submarine on offense against Destroyer and costlier warships.)
Can be hit by planes, doesn’t require an Anti-Sub Vessel.
Re: Reality wrecking destroyer rules need a revamp…
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34169.msg1372793#msg1372793

DESTROYER A2 D2 M2 Cost 7
Anti-Sub Vessel: each ASV blocks Surprise Strike capacity of all enemy’s Submarine units present.
Cancel Sub’s Submerge on 1 DD:1 Sub basis for the first combat round only
(When it occurs, defending Subs rolls a Defense @1 in the first round, and any surviving Subs can submerge at the beginning of the second combat round.)
Cancel Sub’s Stealth Movement on 1 DD: 1 Sub basis for Combat or Non Combat Move, all additional Sub units can perform a Stealth Movement as usual.

TRANSPORT A0 D1 M2 Cost 8, 1 hit, taken as last casualty,
Exception: can be picked as a casualty anytime when an enemy’s submarine hit has to be allocated (owner’s choice, as always, to pick or not transport as casualty).
Simplifying units interactions of Transports, Submarines, Destroyers & planes
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34290.msg1320853#msg1320853
@Baron:

Another way to increase a better defense is a compromise for taken last transport A0 D1.
Only Subs hit can be allocated to Transport units before Warships.
This can somehow re-enact sub-warfare against Transport and the Destroyer reactions to attacking Subs.

Must be escorted by a warship when making an amphibious assault in an enemy’s Submarines infested SZ or Transports infested SZ, so to be able to ignore them/ or fight them with combat units.
Otherwise, Submarines and Transports may be ignored during Transport Combat Move or Non Combat Move.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34290.msg1373212#msg1373212

FIGHTER A3 D4 M4 Cost 8
hits enemy’s planes on “1” or “2” roll, or even “3” roll for up to 3 Fg units if an operational Air Base is present.
Gives +1 Attack or +1 Defense to 1 Tactical Bomber if paired 1:1 with.
SBR/TcBR Attack @2, Defend @2, or even defend @3 for up to 3 Fgs if an operational Air Base is present.
Can hit submarines without ASV.

TACTICAL BOMBER A3-4 D3-4 M4 Cost 8
hits enemy’s planes on a “1” roll,
Gets A4 or D4 when paired 1:1 to a Fighter unit or when there is no enemy’s aircraft.
Gets A4 or D4 when paired 1:1 to a Tank unit
SBR/TcBR attack @1,
Allowed to do escort mission of StB without doing TcBR on AB or NB,
Cannot do interception mission on defense,
TcBR damage: 1D6.
Can hit submarines without ASV.

CRUISER A3 D3 M2 Cost 9
Shore bombardment @3
Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Carrier: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34985.msg1359001#msg1359001

(G40 ESCORT CARRIER) A0 D1 M2 Cost 9, 1 hit added for completeness
(1942.2 Escort Carrier) A1 D1 M2 Cost 9, 1 hit
Carry 1 Fighter or 1 Tactical Bomber,
Anti-Sub Vessel, working the same as a Destroyer.
Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.

STRATEGIC BOMBER (2-Engines Medium Bomber) A4 D1 M6 Cost 10
hits enemy’s planes on a “1” roll,
Strategical Bombing Raid (SBR*)/ TBR : Attack @1
SBR/TBR damage: 1D6 on Industrial Complex, Air Base or Naval Base
Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.

(High Altitude Strategic BOMBER) (4-Engines Heavy Bomber) A4 D1 M7 Cost 12 added for completeness
hits enemy’s planes on a “1” roll,
Strategical Bombing Raid (SBR*)/ TBR : Attack @1
SBR/TBR damage: 2D6 on Industrial Complex, Air Base or Naval Base
If destroyed by IC’s, AB’s or NB’s AA gun, reduced SBR damage: 1D6-1
No damage if destroyed by Fighter interceptor.
Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.
Re: Rethinking Air Units
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34502.msg1331015#msg1331015

1942.2 CARRIER A1 D2 M2 Cost 12, 1 hit
Carry 2 planes (Fgs or TcBs)
Damaged Carrier can still carry 1 plane.
Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.

G40 CARRIER A0 D2 M2 Cost 14, 2 hits
Carry 2 planes (Fg or TcB)
Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.

BATTLESHIP A4 D4 M2 Cost 16, 2 hits
Shore bombardment @4
Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Cruiser and 1 Carrier: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34985.msg1359001#msg1359001

If you want to increase battle between planes, allows 1 single Fg or TcB to land in a just conquered territory, as long as it have another extra movement point for landing.

For my part, I would allow 3 types of defensive maneuvers for aircraft:

aerial retreat for attacking planes (all can retreat while letting ground units pursuing battle), this is similar to air retreat from amphibious assault

a limited aerial withdrawal of 1 space anytime after first combat round for 1 defending plane 1 StB or 1 TcB or 1 Fg and

a limited landing in a just conquered territory: 1 plane (either Fighter or Tactical Bomber), as long as it can provide 1 extra movement point for this special landing.

Maybe this can be an interesting variation which provides a better incentive to put at risk some costlier Aircrafts against ground and other defending planes:

TANK A3-4 D3-4 M2 Cost 6
Can Blitz or allow Mechanized Infantry and Mechanized Artillery to blitz on 1:1 or 1:1:1 basis.
Gives +1A/D to Mechanized Artillery when paired 1:1 with
Gets A4 or D4 from Tactical Bomber when paired 1:1 with
Both bonus can work at the time.

FIGHTER A3 D4 M4 Cost 8
hits enemy’s planes on “1” or “2” roll, or even “3” roll for up to 3 Fg units if an operational Air Base is present.
Gives +1 Attack or +1 Defense to 1 Tactical Bomber if paired 1:1 with.
SBR/TcBR Attack @2, Defend @2, or even defend @3 for up to 3 Fgs if an operational Air Base is present.
Can hit submarines without ASV.

TACTICAL BOMBER A3-4 D3-4 M4 Cost 9
hits enemy’s planes on a “1” roll,
Gets A4 or D4 when paired 1:1 to a Fighter unit or when there is no enemy’s aircraft.
Gives +1 Attack/defense to any Tank unit paired 1:1
Both bonus can work at the time.

SBR/TcBR attack @1,
Allowed to do escorting mission for StBs without doing TcBR on AB or NB,
Cannot do interception mission on defense,
TcBR damage: 1D6.
Can hit submarines without ASV.

This make for 8-9-10 IPCs Aircrafts.
B

1942.2 Strategic Bombing Raid SBR, Bombers and escorts, Interceptors vs triple A

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• • • baron Münchhausen

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@Black_Elk:

This thread has too much good information to let it sit for an entire year without comment.
:-D

Right now my group doesn’t play with escort/intercept rules, because it just doesn’t seem worth the risk to the fighters (in either role). So when the rules are in effect it mainly serves to discourage bombing altogether.

With altered abilites, like the ones suggested here, I might be more inclined to play the Escort/intercept game.

I think you probably need 3 things to bring Air into balance:
a. an improved SBR mechanic.

b. Better Anti-Aircraft Artillery units Abilities. Like one that can move in combat, with a normal attack defense value of 1, in addition to a one time opening shot vs air, or something along those lines.

c. Some form of naval AA-fire.

I think you have touched on all the essentials here. And have brought up the others before. In addition to working out a dogfight system. The stats in thread are compelling and demonstrate how the first aspect “improved sbr” might be approached.

Nice work, as always

Thank you very much.
I forgot this thread, I will probably use some stats into my Summary thread under construction about various SBRs.

Nonetheless, it needs full focus to really weight all the aspects of SBR with all these numbers.
I can easily understand you need to be in a certain “vibe” to read this kind of posts, hence it was quite dusty.

Besides, I agree on your analysis of these 3 points a, b, c. They need to be coordinate to get a better game.
I made a lot of posts on these points over months.
Need to find the good angle to get a fresh start on these.
B

1942.2 & G40 Improving historical accuracy of amphibious assault

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• • • baron Münchhausen

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@Imperious:

The map should be marked for possible landing sites. It is not a fact that major landings could take place “anywhere”.
True but it is too much zoom-in tactical level geography.
Let’s suppose the amphibious assault is made in an appropriate places.
The bad or good luck of the first roll of dices in combat is making for a good or bad landing place.

First, the attacker should only be able to attack with infantry only on the first round ( and air units). This would be rolled after SB is performed.
AAA fire then Shore Bombardment are the first two steps. At a tactical level, artillery and armor have a bad moment to pass through during landing phase. The issue is to figure it all at strategical level and keep balance.
I suggested this penalty can be enough:
instead of saying all A1 for the first round of an Amph. Assault
Just say all attacking ground units get -1A to a minimum of A1, for the first round.
Hence, Artillery get A1.
But, at least Armor can get A2.
And according to this HR, even an Inf getting A2 for being paired with Art is reduced to A1.
But, at a strategical level, the SB can give a little support to Infantry unit trying to land.
That’s why:

During the first round of an Amph. Ass.
Destroyer, on a 1:1 basis, give +1A boost to 1 Infantry unit.
Cruiser, on a 1:1 basis, give +1A boost to 1 Infantry unit, in addition to the shore bombardment.
Battleship, on a 1:2 basis, give +1A, to up to 2 Infantry units, in addition to the shore bombardment.

So the warships heavy guns can make a difference (even Destroyer’s one), on landing round.

Second, Defending Infantry and Artillery should fire preemptively ( loses taken first do not fire in subsequent rounds)
This is a tough one, do we give it to Artillery unit only or to both units?
Here I followed Razor and also you, at the strategical level, and for balance (too much Inf vs Art), and for simplicity and also because 1914 give it only to Artillery unit. And it will be a weaker ones however:
All Artillery units get a preemptive strike (like subs) against incoming units.

Third, all remaining attacking units roll, then remaining

The attacker should be able to retreat, however all mech units are converted into infantry ( they leave the beaches with equipment…ala Dunkirk)
That one is new. It is alien to A&A system to convert 1 unit into another.
However, a retreat possibility could be interesting…
But usually the better units will survived last. This means it will probably be armor or artillery…

Instead, it can be something like this:
If amphibious assault units needs to retreat (at the beginning of the round), attacker must loose 1 Armor unit or 1 Art unit before any other 1 casualty.
Basically, attacker must loose 1 additional ground unit (the costlier and valuable one), and this unit cannot fire, then return the surviving units on landing barge (transports).
On most occasion this will mean 1 armor unit, an A3D3, 6 IPCs unit.

Thanks for this idea about amphibious assault retreat.

It can even more create an incentive for the defender, to throw an air/naval assault on transports to get ride of the surviving retreating units. Rarely see, ground troops going into the bottom of the ocean with transports units.
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Why does a sea battle forbids the coastal bombardment in 1942.1, 1942.2, 1940?

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• • • baron Münchhausen

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Does anyone knows why the more expensive units (i.e. cruiser 12$ and battleship 20$) are not able to bombard a only one shot on the coast once they win a sea battle offshore?

For me, it seems many times you cannot use their only special capability.
For all other cheaper units their is no such thing.

In what way does this rule is necessary to keep the balance?

In game terms, since a turn is three months long why a cruiser or a BB cannot fight the enemy ships, then help the amphibious assault since you cannot make any debarkment if you are not able to destroy the enemy naval unit?

I’m pretty sure that, during WWII, many cruisers and battleships were able to destroy others defending surface vessels and, some hours later, support with their heavy guns the marines launching an assault on a beach.

If both battles have been simultaneous (like Leyte Gulf Battle) that would be OK, but, in the game, if you loose or retreat no transport can unload their troops.

Anyway, I wish to suggest a different rule to simulate that cruiser and BB can do many things during a three month turn. Or can make a more intensive bombardment if their is no other assignment.

1- Always allow one coastal bombardment per surviving cruiser or battleship after a naval battle and before the amphibious assault (limited by the number of ground unit coming out of transports). If the BB was damaged during the previous battle, halfed the attack: 1@2 instead of 1@4.
Or we can logically say that a damaged BB have to repair and is unable to support a debarkment. This would make sens.

2- When their is no naval battle, allows 2 rolls of dice per cruiser and BB present (limited by the number of ground unit coming out of transports) but take only the better result for each one (like LHTR for heavy bomber) .

Example: 3 inf are part of an amphibious combat, so 3 cruisers (A, B, C) out of 4 (D) cruisers offshore can roll dices @3:
A 1,2 / B 3,3 / C 4,5,/ D not allowed
thus making 2 hits even though four dices make 3 and under.

In this way, the expensive units can always be use at their full potential.

Option B: we can instead halfed the attack value of cruiser and BB that made naval battle before a debarkment: cruiser get 1@1/ BB get 1@2.
And a damaged BB have to be repaired and is unable to support a debarkment.

What do you think? Do you have some answers for my previous questions?
Thanks.
I

AARHE: Phase 2: Neutrals

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• • • Imperious Leader

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@Imperious:

+++++ Then i feel we should use the same pattern in AARHE to fit with LHTR. The language should be similiar so as not to confuse. Please modifiy this throughout the text.

Ok.

The diplomacy modifier of -3 was too much and leads to many neutrals converting too fast.

Yeah I can imagine.
Thats hitting on 4 or less, which is 66%.
Allies has 4 dices per turn.
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AARHE: Phase 2: Units

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• • • Imperious Leader

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ok lets talk about it in the setup thread

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=8697.0

so far only change is FTR (fighter) on CV (aircraft carrier) is NAV (naval fighter)

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