Game History
Round: 1 Purchase Units - Americans Americans buy nothing; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Turn Complete - Americans Americans collect 20 PUs; end with 20 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Mainah (X) vs Stough (L) OOB 2nd go
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@Stough
G1. Standard opener. Not much to say here. I have read that some advocate fast movers are a better buy first turn, if not doing any sealion feign or actual. I’m on the fence. Definitely after turn 1, but any inf/art built turn 1 is in poland G2, and then part of any G3 assault. I guess it depends if your aim is a G2dow on R. Which i haven’t played with yet. -
R1. Purchase is good. I would have placed more in Russia, and none in Lennigrad. Inf in lennigrad take 3 turns to get safe - and trying to seriously hold lennigrad is a fools erand, as the money and strategic placement is best in the south i’m not advicating total abandonment - depending on what G does and how dice affect things, a small force can be used to slow by a turn G’s ability to hold novograd, and potentially worth it. But it shouldn’t be a major front.
I think moving forward with units isn’t optimal. Nothing more than a blocker in bess and baltic is worth it. And fast movers are probably better in smolensk. Can do or threaten a quick counter attack north. Forces germany to chose between losing units and sending extra units north away from the main action - and they need as much as they can muster to confront any russian stack in bryansk/smolensk. Too many units sent north by G stalls any progress to confronting the stack and aiming for the money in the south. Stalling is the Axis worst enemy. Coming from a player that played axis to slow and conservative, i know from hard experience.
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@Stough
Would like you to analyze J1. I know my thoughts, very interested to hear yours. -
Working on G-1 when I have the time, then I’ll go through all of Round 1. Gimme a bit.
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2nd Game Assessment
German 1
Buy: 3 art , 6 infComment: Good buy for a Moscow crush. Good proportion, much better than in game one. Those arty’s come in handy
Combat Move/Combat:
Comment: All good except for SZ 111, not sure why you go in so light with that attack. Adding a bomber bumps it up to 80%, while reducing SZ to 110 to 90%- with a full scramble- which is unlikely. If this is about preserving your Air Force, ok.
The single province attack on France was fine considering your pace, meaning you’d be buying more slow movers in G2. Considering how abysmal the dice were, it was fortuitus.
NCM/ Place:
Comment: Leaving the AAA and Air force in Belgium was risky. A French strafe could take 2 of those. followed by a UK strike and 3 of your planes are gone with the wind. If I’d seen this the way I see things now, I would have seriously considered it. Would I trade 3-4 allied planes for 2-3 German ones? Probably.Dropping a plane in Italy and one in Tobruck is pretty standard, but if I gamble with the Belgium move, I’m not doing Taranto, which means I’m def doing Tobruck. Now your down 4-5 planes.
Not adding anything to France , considering your high loses, told me Italy was going to take S France. Not a big tip off, but any info helps.
The transport/Cruiser- why not mover them back one spot to prevent a bomber strike?
Norway- Why not leave some behind and why not add an art and inf?
Russia 1
Buy: 12 infComment: It’s ok, probably the smarter buy, although I do like the 4 arty buy a bit better. 95 out of 100, Russia isn’t going to do didly poo for 3 turns, probably more, so having those arty isn’t really needed and reduces the number of defenders available. However, in the event of a full Sea Lion, they may allow Russia to transition a bit faster to the offensive. I don’t really know this, as I haven’t dealt with a full Sea Lion. I’m just guessing. What they WILL do is allow Russia more flexibility in the province squabbles to come.
Combat Move/Combat:
Comment:NCM/ Place:
Comment: Garbage. Belarus, Western Ukraine, maybe have the planes in Leningrad. Everything else is BS.
Keeping a guy or two in Cuac is a thought, those ME countries can be conquered later by Russia and added to their IPCs. 2-4 IPC’s and a handful of guys for later battles, but wayyyy out of position. I’m not experienced to know how and why to do this, but it’s an interesting thought.The far east guys I’m cool with running. I just don’t see any value in keeping them there unless they can be used in combo with something else. Plus, Japan doesn’t know you are running for sure for a few moves. Those guys are either vital potential reinforcements or can be used better from the other side of China. The best they can do early is delay Japan for 1 turn. That’s my assessment for now until I see something I don’t know of yet.
Japan 1
Buy: 3 Tran
Comment: Keep in mind that I am stil mystified by J-3. So most of my comments will be out of a wealth of ignorance.
To me it’s either this, or 2 tran and a minor in Kiansu. I like yours better. Japan’s biggest problems are their lack of resources early and they are top heavy with not enough boots on the ground. I’m still unsure of how to best fix this problem.Combat Move/Combat:
Comment: Good in Southern China too lite in Northern China. For Yunan it’s all about killing Chinese and setting them up to kill again in the next turn immediate. You did this.NCM/ Place:
Comment: Why leave those guys in Manchuria? If the Ruskies double back, you have boats and will have to commit most of them, so f’ it, bring them forward.
Why leave a guy in Siam? He can help with Yunan next turn, in Siam he’s wasted.
Going dso lite on China in the North, now means you have a conga line of BS. You have a nice clump in Jehol, but who are they going to fight? This set you up for trouble later.I’m less sure about the Navy; in that I think you know far better. I guess the Caroline clump is good for threatening Hawaii/ Queensland/Sydney. But it would be a bit more threatening with an arty. Your set up looks like you want to hold it, but go no further. Which would be awesome if you want to lash out. But not so awesome if you do not.
Where your moves are great is in how you are setting up defensive positions for that awesome triangle you develop in Kwang/Philippines/Malaya. Which become a rectangle when you extend into China.
Side Note: didn’t your assault on FIC mean that Britain/US was now at war. Clarify that rule for me please.
US/China 1
Buy: 2 carriers and 1 destroyer
Comment: A garbage buy. Pick one. It’s either Pac or Atlantic. The destroyer is a big yes, but everything else is a wash. The US isn’t strong enough to build a two ocean navy under a J-3. So either pick one and build there or just build the minimum and save if you are looking to mask what you are doing.Combat Move/Combat:
Comment: Good attack into Yunan. Any Japanese killed is a good thing. I was sorely tempted to go with 5, but I think going with 6 was the better call. The funny thing is, my original idea was to load up Yunan and then flip them to Burma. I’m strangely glad that it didn’t go down like that.NCM/ Place:
Comment: Another series of dumb placements. Put that navy in Hawaii. Load it up. I used to scorn the block move in the money islands, but I think I’m turning into a fan. Get that US destroyer over there. It’s either that or combine with the big boys in Australia. At the time I had no idea what they were allowed to do, and I didn’t ask, so I just kind of lamely scurried about with no plan for the future.
Good place for China, the best I could do under the circumstances. I figured anything more would in Yunan just be killed for no gain. Whereas now, I had a slight chance to hit it again.UK1
Buy: UKE- Kind of a balsy buy in hindsight. Not sure it was very smart, but hey. Should of bought a tank or a plane or both in S Africa. I factory in Cairo would have been nice, but without knowing the turnout of the battles is pretty risky.
UKA- Good buy, but a tank would have been better, having a unit that can blitz in that front is pretty darn helpful
Comment:Combat Move/Combat:
Comment: This was the best possible outcome for a north first UK offensive. I knocked Italy out of the Med in one move. Lucky. I’m not sure I will ever try that again, unless I have a way to bring guys to bear in a hurry in round two.
I should have also hit either Somalia or Ethiopia. Ethiopia would have been better-
But , then again, that would have left me with nothing for round 2. Just the two guys inNCM/ Place:
Comment: Good place in Gib. I should do that every time.
Why not bring an inf to Perisa? Dumb.
Why not drop those India planes in Kenya and combine with the inf? That looks like a win/win. Especially if I attack Ethiopia.
The Navy. Dumb. Either use the des to block Sumatra . Take Sumatra. Or bring them to the Suez to deny Italy their NO next turn. Or both; without taking Sumatra.
In the end, I think getting UKE up and running is more important than padding UKP’s stack. Or a futile delay on Sumatra with inf.
The question is how quick do I want Persia up and running, I hate putting a complex in Cairo, seems a waste, but it’s really useful in keeping Italy down.Italy1
Buy: 1 tank, 1 Wagon
Comment: What else are you gonna do?Combat Move/Combat:
Comment: Not a fan of Bulgaria, that’s 4 Germans needed versus Russia. That plus Greece denies Germany 3 IPC’s a turn. And puts your Italian Armor out of position. After that UK1, all Italy was going to do was can open and turtle. And wait to pick up money in Russia.
Good attack on Tobruk. It was either kill the tank or withdraw the guys. Good choice.I think I would have left SZ96 to the Germans and just brought the hammer to the French. It worked out though and you saved German planes. Good choice.
NCM/ Place:
Comment: What else?ANZAC/French
Buy: 3 inf
Comment: Dumb. Be aggressive in ANZAC 1. You can turtle later. Especially in a J-3. Should have bought a tran and an if, or a plane or a rocket ship.Combat Move/Combat:
Comment: I think die in place was a good call for FranceNCM/ Place:
Comment: Beyond stupid. I can’t seem to get it through my thick head that I can go to the Dutch territories on Rd 1 and get 4 IPCs.
French: What am I doing with the Destroyer? Pick one the Atlantic or Med!
I actually like the squeeze move on Italy in Libya. It was worth the loss of 1 IPC per turn. Every thing else was ok. -
@Stough said in Mainah (X) vs Stough (L) OOB 2nd go:
2nd Game Assessment
German 1
Buy: 3 art , 6 infComment: Good buy for a Moscow crush. Good proportion, much better than in game one. Those arty’s come in handy
Combat Move/Combat:
Comment: All good except for SZ 111, not sure why you go in so light with that attack. Adding a bomber bumps it up to 80%, while reducing SZ to 110 to 90%- with a full scramble- which is unlikely. If this is about preserving your Air Force, ok.
Plan was a strafe in 111. Leaving a tipped BB for uk, and hopefully a tipped ger BB in 112. Dice did not cooperate. Usually does. And keeps 110 strong.
The single province attack on France was fine considering your pace, meaning you’d be buying more slow movers in G2. Considering how abysmal the dice were, it was fortuitus.
NCM/ Place:
Comment: Leaving the AAA and Air force in Belgium was risky. A French strafe could take 2 of those. followed by a UK strike and 3 of your planes are gone with the wind. If I’d seen this the way I see things now, I would have seriously considered it. Would I trade 3-4 allied planes for 2-3 German ones? Probably.Keep in mind that is the only place besides a CA the tac from ger can land if participating in any battle this turn. You can either land it alone, or stack it with what you can. I agree that i underestimated the french can opening possibility, but there are 3 aaa guns to take as casualties first. You should run a battle calc, and then keep in mind if there is no immediate sealion threat, there are better ways to use the uk fighters than an early trade battle.
Dropping a plane in Italy and one in Tobruck is pretty standard, but if I gamble with the Belgium move, I’m not doing Taranto, which means I’m def doing Tobruck. Now your down 4-5 planes.
Not adding anything to France , considering your high loses, told me Italy was going to take S France. Not a big tip off, but any info helps.
The transport/Cruiser- why not mover them back one spot to prevent a bomber strike?
2 plane scramble. Would gladly trade for the UK bomber. Which is almost always wisely used to sink remaining ger subs.
Norway- Why not leave some behind and why not add an art and inf?
Behind? No threat. Why not move them up to threaten Russia. But the reinforcement is probably a better choice, yes
Russia 1
Buy: 12 infComment: It’s ok, probably the smarter buy, although I do like the 4 arty buy a bit better. 95 out of 100, Russia isn’t going to do didly poo for 3 turns, probably more, so having those arty isn’t really needed and reduces the number of defenders available. However, in the event of a full Sea Lion, they may allow Russia to transition a bit faster to the offensive. I don’t really know this, as I haven’t dealt with a full Sea Lion. I’m just guessing. What they WILL do is allow Russia more flexibility in the province squabbles to come.
Combat Move/Combat:
Comment:NCM/ Place:
Comment: Garbage. Belarus, Western Ukraine, maybe have the planes in Leningrad. Everything else is BS.
Keeping a guy or two in Cuac is a thought, those ME countries can be conquered later by Russia and added to their IPCs. 2-4 IPC’s and a handful of guys for later battles, but wayyyy out of position. I’m not experienced to know how and why to do this, but it’s an interesting thought.The far east guys I’m cool with running. I just don’t see any value in keeping them there unless they can be used in combo with something else. Plus, Japan doesn’t know you are running for sure for a few moves. Those guys are either vital potential reinforcements or can be used better from the other side of China. The best they can do early is delay Japan for 1 turn. That’s my assessment for now until I see something I don’t know of yet.
Japan 1
Buy: 3 Tran
Comment: Keep in mind that I am stil mystified by J-3. So most of my comments will be out of a wealth of ignorance.
To me it’s either this, or 2 tran and a minor in Kiansu. I like yours better. Japan’s biggest problems are their lack of resources early and they are top heavy with not enough boots on the ground. I’m still unsure of how to best fix this problem.Combat Move/Combat:
Comment: Good in Southern China too lite in Northern China. For Yunan it’s all about killing Chinese and setting them up to kill again in the next turn immediate. You did this.NCM/ Place:
Comment: Why leave those guys in Manchuria? If the Ruskies double back, you have boats and will have to commit most of them, so f’ it, bring them forward.
Why leave a guy in Siam? He can help with Yunan next turn, in Siam he’s wasted.
Going dso lite on China in the North, now means you have a conga line of BS. You have a nice clump in Jehol, but who are they going to fight? This set you up for trouble later.Siam - you are right. Korea guys to manchuria only option besides using TT - and there are plenty of inf in japan proper. Jehol is the first strp to getting thise guys into the china battle. If russkies double back - they can do the same.
I’m less sure about the Navy; in that I think you know far better. I guess the Caroline clump is good for threatening Hawaii/ Queensland/Sydney. But it would be a bit more threatening with an arty. Your set up looks like you want to hold it, but go no further. Which would be awesome if you want to lash out. But not so awesome if you do not.
There are land units in the carolines that are quite often slaughtered when (and i do mean when) the us grabs it. Why not use them? Not add to the number.
Where your moves are great is in how you are setting up defensive positions for that awesome triangle you develop in Kwang/Philippines/Malaya. Which become a rectangle when you extend into China.
Side Note: didn’t your assault on FIC mean that Britain/US was now at war. Clarify that rule for me please.
No. But the 10 pu’s from us trade NO is gone.
US/China 1
Buy: 2 carriers and 1 destroyer
Comment: A garbage buy. Pick one. It’s either Pac or Atlantic. The destroyer is a big yes, but everything else is a wash. The US isn’t strong enough to build a two ocean navy under a J-3. So either pick one and build there or just build the minimum and save if you are looking to mask what you are doing.Not garbage. Very common good US 1 purchase. You’ll see when you play axis.
Combat Move/Combat:
Comment: Good attack into Yunan. Any Japanese killed is a good thing. I was sorely tempted to go with 5, but I think going with 6 was the better call. The funny thing is, my original idea was to load up Yunan and then flip them to Burma. I’m strangely glad that it didn’t go down like that.Minimum Chi troops to retake yunan. You need them layer.
NCM/ Place:
Comment: Another series of dumb placements. Put that navy in Hawaii. Load it up. I used to scorn the block move in the money islands, but I think I’m turning into a fan. Get that US destroyer over there. It’s either that or combine with the big boys in Australia. At the time I had no idea what they were allowed to do, and I didn’t ask, so I just kind of lamely scurried about with no plan for the future.
Good place for China, the best I could do under the circumstances. I figured anything more would in Yunan just be killed for no gain. Whereas now, I had a slight chance to hit it again.UK1
Buy: UKE- Kind of a balsy buy in hindsight. Not sure it was very smart, but hey. Should of bought a tank or a plane or both in S Africa. I factory in Cairo would have been nice, but without knowing the turnout of the battles is pretty risky.
UKA- Good buy, but a tank would have been better, having a unit that can blitz in that front is pretty darn helpful
Comment:
UKP has limited money that shrinks early. Best to start stacking. Your buy was good and common.Combat Move/Combat:
Comment: This was the best possible outcome for a north first UK offensive. I knocked Italy out of the Med in one move. Lucky. I’m not sure I will ever try that again, unless I have a way to bring guys to bear in a hurry in round two.
I should have also hit either Somalia or Ethiopia. Ethiopia would have been better-
But , then again, that would have left me with nothing for round 2. Just the two guys inYeah, i’m 50/50 too.
NCM/ Place:
Comment: Good place in Gib. I should do that every time.
Why not bring an inf to Perisa? Dumb.
Why not drop those India planes in Kenya and combine with the inf? That looks like a win/win. Especially if I attack Ethiopia.
The Navy. Dumb. Either use the des to block Sumatra . Take Sumatra. Or bring them to the Suez to deny Italy their NO next turn. Or both; without taking Sumatra.Destoryer good to save to block a calcutta crush.
In the end, I think getting UKE up and running is more important than padding UKP’s stack. Or a futile delay on Sumatra with inf.
The question is how quick do I want Persia up and running, I hate putting a complex in Cairo, seems a waste, but it’s really useful in keeping Italy down.Italy1
Buy: 1 tank, 1 Wagon
Comment: What else are you gonna do?Combat Move/Combat:
Comment: Not a fan of Bulgaria, that’s 4 Germans needed versus Russia. That plus Greece denies Germany 3 IPC’s a turn. And puts your Italian Armor out of position. After that UK1, all Italy was going to do was can open and turtle. And wait to pick up money in Russia.
Good attack on Tobruk. It was either kill the tank or withdraw the guys. Good choice.Agree with bulgaria.
I think I would have left SZ96 to the Germans and just brought the hammer to the French. It worked out though and you saved German planes. Good choice.
NCM/ Place:
Comment: What else?ANZAC/French
Buy: 3 inf
Comment: Dumb. Be aggressive in ANZAC 1. You can turtle later. Especially in a J-3. Should have bought a tran and an if, or a plane or a rocket ship.Combat Move/Combat:
Comment: I think die in place was a good call for FranceNCM/ Place:
Comment: Beyond stupid. I can’t seem to get it through my thick head that I can go to the Dutch territories on Rd 1 and get 4 IPCs.
French: What am I doing with the Destroyer? Pick one the Atlantic or Med!
I actually like the squeeze move on Italy in Libya. It was worth the loss of 1 IPC per turn. Every thing else was ok.The anzac move to get money from a $$$ island should jave been done.
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Right on. This is how we will really help each other. My instincts are hyper aggressive, which is why playing the Allies first is so good for me. Also why I was so aggressive with UKE. By the time their turn comes around, I’m ready to smack something.
I will have to see with China. My thoughts on them are obviously evolving. My first instinct was to trade as many Chinese for Japan soldiers as possible, while still retaining the ability to block rapid movement.
Also, OOB is entirely a different scenario for them. I don’t know what the stats are , but those Chinese killed a lot of Japanese. My plan being to exploit Japan’s weakness in ground troops.
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Up to round 7 , the stats were 16 Japanese, 18 Chinese and a fighter.
I threw this game away.
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@Stough
Your right about the general principle of using china to grind down the japanese ground forces. But its a grind, not a short 1-3 battle campaign. You knock them down 1 -2 territories, 2-3 japanese inf a turn. -
I’ll roll the dice with my comments and trust that you can differentiate between comments that come from my inexperience to comments that may reveal something worthwhile.
I appreciate any feedback from yourself. Like 'em all.
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@Stough
No need to worry about giving your 2 cents. Even if I don’t agree, it gives us both insight into how an opponent might think.I made the error of trying to respond with my phone earlier. For such an indepth analysis, not the best way.
I’ll attempt Round 2. I will say this about your J3 mystery. J1 has its advantages in OOB, not so much in BM3. In OOB, there can be no sealion, and it does slow down Germany’s assault into Russia. You can also kiss any attempt on Gib goodbye. A J3 is about keeping USA away from Europe for as long as possible, and using that time to ensure the J3 attack partially, if not completely, makes up for that lost time, and added allied units/positioning.
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SO G2 - purchases were junk. Fast movers were required. Mech, tanks. Maybe a bomber, maybe a little navy, but mostly mechs. Need to get an land into Russia fast.
Combat - standard stuff. Not much to analyze.
NCM - Would have moved 1 sub towards the South Atlantic for convoying and general havoc. Forcing the allies to displace units is a good thing. And so is convoying.
R Purchase - Standard. As I bought few slow movers, this would have been a good time to by a fig or a couple of arts. Some would probably consider a Tank, I’d rather opt for the flexability and increased D of the Fig.
NCM - Again - fast movers further north. Your inf blockers are unnecessary, and thus lost units, for no real gain.
Don’t underestimate what 12, or 18 Inf in Amur can do. If attacking, that’s an expected 3 hits. And if they capture a territory, a serious defensive potential, with 2 AA when Japan’s main attack force is Air. A big threat that could keep J land from migrating to china.J2 - Purchase - 2 subs not so much. Maybe 1, but not based on your US moves. Either another TT, or a tank. Still refining this purchase phase.
My NCM - I am still refining this - but I got it close to where I want. Position for a massive territory grab on j3. That transpot off of Kwangtung would be better positioned with the others. The navy off New guinea was unforseen. It was to allow air to be involved in attack NG and still be able to reposition my ships where I wanted them at the end of J3. Largely due to turtling ANZAC and American navy off West Coast. Since no surface naval threat, I could opt for better future post combat positioning rather than current defense.
US Purchases 2 carriers a bit much. Maybe 1. Air is good - but you are way light on Transports. On Turn 3, the US will be in the war. and wont be able to do much at all in Europe without ferries. at least one additional in the atlantic.
NCM - solid. recitified the earlier situation in Pacific.
C2 - I would have, then, attacked Kwechow. Not yunan. I have learned the hard way that Yunan is a fools errand without massive UK Pac support. And with it - it can be held by the UK for china. Shensi would have made a good place for your stack - more maneuver room. If I were in this position now, I would attack Kweichow and Hopei.
UK2 - Europe Combat was perfect set up - extreme dice, good or bad, can’t be accounted for. Europe NCM perfect. UKP NCM - Would have kept more of the stack in Burma, to threaten Yunan and the FIC factory. If this was tied to a Chinese movement northward, it forces japan to split it meager ground forces. Purchase - I dunno about the 2nd destroyer. I would have opted for a transport, to replace the one you lost (and need) and to bring in the rest of the canadians (which were stranded for the rest of the game. Because after turn 4, getting them into things requires UK to be out of position to provide the transport).
Italy - I have no idea what I was thinking with the TT purchase. Probably the worst purchase of the game. Other than that, not much to say. Greece is a normal thing. consolidation of forces, prepping for the inevitable allied inversions.
Anzac - 2nd turn of turtling purchases. I will say at the time, I started planning on an India attack, and an assault against the US navy. This purchase really lulled me into over confidence. I had no intention of going for Sydney. But enough about me - bad buy. You need something to strike, or at least threaten, the Japan. You already beefed up your land guys - which is not the worst 1st turn purchase. But now, Subs, or Figs. Maybe a destroyer for future blocking.
Combat - more aggressive than I would opt for, but it wasn’t a wrong choice. There wasn’t much of a threat to Egypt. Now, I would say it’s better to hold onto them for some mild can opening.
Pulling the Inf out of NG at that point, and NOT going for Java, was not optimal. That allows Japan an easy walk on to remove your NO, and an easy walk on for a $$ island. the transport could come home, but at the min, the INF should have stayed.
French NCM - doing what they should do - consolidating allied defenses. -
I’m coming in SZ 97 with 3 fighters and a bomber and all my med ships. Scramble?
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@akashgupta27
I wouldn’t.
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