Chinese figther and german AA-guns

[marechallannes]

Hi answer guy!

Two questions:

Is the chinese figther able to attack outside chinese terretories, manchuria, kwangtung and kiangsu? For example japanese ships in SZ 61 or 36?

If germany (1942 setup) researches in game turn 1 radar and move the AA-gun from france to italy (so it contains a german aa-gun and an italian aa-gun).
Wich gun defends when the UK player bombs italy in his combat turn? :?

[Krieghund]

@marechallannes:

Is the chinese figther able to attack outside chinese terretories, manchuria, kwangtung and kiangsu? For example japanese ships in SZ 61 or 36?

No.  Like any Chinese unit, it can’t leave China.

@marechallannes:

If germany (1942 setup) researches in game turn 1 radar and move the AA-gun from france to italy (so it contains a german aa-gun and an italian aa-gun).
Wich gun defends when the UK player bombs italy in his combat turn? :?

Whichever the Axis player(s) prefer.

[J2004823]

@Krieghund:

No.  Like any Chinese unit, it can’t leave China.

Krieghund,

Thank you for answers. If you are right, then rulebook has to clarify this point.

rulebook p.10 China Rules

“Chinese units have a limited range of occupation, displayed by the colored border.”

That does not forbid Chinese units to move into other territories, as long as Chinese units do not occupy those territories. Meaning Chinese units can enter friendly territories, or even defend a friendly territories with Allies.

Maybe rulebook can include a list of territories that Chinese units can move into or through. For instance: Chinese units have a limited range of occupation, displayed by the colored border. Chinese units cannot move outside the following territories:Manchuria, Kiangsu, Suiyuan, Ningxia, Chinghai, Fukien, Hupeh, Yunnan, Sikang, Kwangtung (10 territories in total). The American fighter in China, since it is considered part of the Chinese forces, receives the same restrictions.

@Krieghund:

Whichever the Axis player(s) prefer.

Thanks for clarify this.

[Krieghund]

@J2004823:

@Krieghund:

No.  Like any Chinese unit, it can’t leave China.

Krieghund,

Thank you for answers. If you are right, then rulebook has to clarify this point.

rulebook p.10 China Rules

“Chinese units have a limited range of occupation, displayed by the colored border.”

That does not forbid Chinese units to move into other territories, as long as Chinese units do not occupy those territories. Meaning Chinese units can enter friendly territories, or even defend a friendly territories with Allies.

Yes, it does forbid Chinese units to move into other territories.  To “occupy” a territory simply means to have your units in it.  It’s not the same thing as “controlling” the territory, which indicates ownership.  Chinese units may not leave the area indicated under any circumstances.

Concerning the Chinese fighter, from page 10:

This fighter is considered part of the Chinese forces for purposes of movement and combat.

This indicates that the fighter must obey all of the movement restrictions that Chinese infantry must obey.  However, I agree that this doesn’t adequately answer the question about whether the fighter may attack outside China and return.  This will be addressed in the FAQ.

[toblerone77]

Given the fact that the Chinese FIG is so limited, what can you really do with it?
If the it’s in a defensive role you’re going to have to have infantry stacked for it to survive. If you’ve got that kind of infantry then Japan is most likely going to have some pretty heavy combined arms up against the Chinese.

I guess it’s kind of a cool novelty to have Flying Tigers in the game but I don’t se a whole lot of use in it.

[Funcioneta]

The flying tigers will die 1st round in any scenario unless crazy dices or Japan’s player poor play. Also, any decent player will kill China J1 1941 (easy game breaker, see that and cry, long range Sea Lion or Revised  8-) ),  or reduce to 5 or 6 inf, 3 or 4 territories, J1 1942. There is few real chance of China reaching the coast even in 1942, without any offensive units.

I can live with minor power status, but there is no sense for that China-cannot-go-out-of-China rule. After all, in the very Revised game manual they said chinese and indian forces attacked Burma road (Burma) at the same time. Why should chinese forces not attack a lone bomber or fighter in FIC? Why should the chinese fighter not attack a lone trannie? (Even unrare as it’s surviving for the fig)

[Zero Pilot]

@toblerone77:

Given the fact that the Chinese FIG is so limited, what can you really do with it?

You can watch it get killed… in Round 1… every time. :-P ~ZP

[Silent Observer]

Which is exactly the same thing as you have always done in both Revised and Classic.

[toblerone77]

I guess that’s why it’s AA50. It’s the 50,000th time that fighter’s been killed.

[Funcioneta]

@Silent:

Which is exactly the same thing as you have always done in both Revised and Classic.

You can buy a new chinese fig in Revised. At Sinkiang IC  :wink: You cannot now. Also, a new ahistorical and buggy feature in AA50 is China unable of attacking her hated japanese enemies at FIC or Burma

[Silent Observer]

The point is however that it would be funny to finally see that fighter survive to see another round of combat, if only once :P

[Bigtiti]

there are some who let chinese fighter live, and can thin,k of it
cause see, it can’t leave china
killnig chinese guys isn’t killing british or US or USSR troops, whop are killing germany
If you take India, chinese fioghter will be piece of cake for takin out

but i still prefer killing it J1 :-)
except in 1942, there, i’m doubting
you’ll need then 3 inf, 2 figs and a bomber

[U-505]

Actually, I am the first and only person ever in the history of the game to CHOOSE not to kill the Chinese fighter. Don’t try to deny me. I have proof. :-D

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=12958.0

And for the record, what exactly do the designers have against the Flying Tigers that they would put them in such a threatened position in every game they make?

[Funcioneta]

Error! Flying Tigers survive in AAPacific!  :-D Even if I don’t like popping inf status and restricted movement China (they cannot load on allied trannies in AAPacific), that’s the best version of China in A&A until today. In AAPacific, China cannot kill Japan, but still they can defend and they are annoying for japs, giving time to India survive and USA come to the rescue, as should be. And China can attack Burma road as in real life … sadly priceless …  :roll:

A Karma +1 fo A&A Pacific  :-D

[Romulus]

Units “doomed to die” in the A&A set up are a constant presence. For example in Revised the UK BB in the Western Med, the Jap TRN in sz 59, the USA fighter in China etc. And I am not considering the German Army in West Russia, or the English Army in Egypt…

[Funcioneta]

But countries “doomed to die” in the A&A setup is a new “feature” of AA50, 1941 scenario  :-P

[AxisOfEvil]

@Romulus:

Units “doomed to die” in the A&A set up are a constant presence. For example in Revised the UK BB in the Western Med, the Jap TRN in sz 59, the USA fighter in China etc. And I am not considering the German Army in West Russia, or the English Army in Egypt…

I might argue that the german army in W Russia is more doomed to die than the TRN in sz 59. If i were inclined to argue  :-D

[Silent Observer]

@AxisOfEvil:

@Romulus:

Units “doomed to die” in the A&A set up are a constant presence. For example in Revised the UK BB in the Western Med, the Jap TRN in sz 59, the USA fighter in China etc. And I am not considering the German Army in West Russia, or the English Army in Egypt…

I might argue that the german army in W Russia is more doomed to die than the TRN in sz 59. If i were inclined to argue   :-D

which you are not and therefore are not arguing this point :P

[Romulus]

@Silent:

@AxisOfEvil:

@Romulus:

Units “doomed to die” in the A&A set up are a constant presence. For example in Revised the UK BB in the Western Med, the Jap TRN in sz 59, the USA fighter in China etc. And I am not considering the German Army in West Russia, or the English Army in Egypt…

I might argue that the german army in W Russia is more doomed to die than the TRN in sz 59. If i were inclined to argue   :-D

which you are not and therefore are not arguing this point :P

… but I could agree on the arguing that the german army in W Russia is more doomed to die than the TRN in sz 59, so if you would argue… you are welcome!  :-D

[Silent Observer]

good thing you guys aren’t arguing then ;)