That idea is in house rules. And it has already been developed before the game came out.
I like your strategy; but correct me if I’m wrong, but all the UK needs to do to deter your plan is spend 8 IPC on a DD…
Thanks!
Let Japan send a fig or two to germany. Problem solved.
/nix
Thanks for resurrecting this old duck which I thought was a dead one! :wink:
Actually, your idea works for the '42 scenario where Japan can clear a US destroyer block, according to this scheme:
3. Germany: builds subs in Baltic Sea and bases aircraft in Germany to strike at possible invasion fleet outside of France.
4. UK: invades France and puts a DD block in North Sea.
5. Italy: attacks DD block with aircraft.
6. USA: puts DD block in North Sea.
1. Japan: attacks DD block with aircraft.
3. Germany: strikes invasion fleet with sub+air!! :evil:
Listen guys,
with the new rules concerning subs and the way their stats are now edited, I would say that they are now more useless than anything.
THey are very weak and can not even be used to block seazones anymore.
I guess the GUARD strategy would work if you used some other types of vessels and if you built an IC in France in the first turn and then save as many units as you can from the allies and merge them in the sea zone in front of France…
I have actually never tried that but if you could do this to counter the allies, you would have to face an unexperimented russian fool to get away with it and still scream ‘’ Nazi victory’’ at the end of the game…
I used to be such a fan of german subs before the 50th edition… as said before in EUROPE they were very strong, you could catch every trade route of the allies in 1 single turn and crush their heads… still.
/Je Gab Fan
I don’t agree. My idea is for a COUNTER-attack, you let UK invade and then wipe out his fleet with a combined attack with subs and aircraft at the same time as you destroy the landing force with your army. (If you want a fleet to defend with you buy one or two CVs, and even then you mostly hang out in the Baltic as the German player in order to shuttle troops to Karelia and protect from invasions.)
Subs are the cheapest unit for naval attacks at 3 IPCs / attack number, only bombers match this but with subs you get two hit points for each one you get buying bombers. The optimum attacking force is a combo of subs and air.
Only Germany can focus fully on attack since all other powers need to have defensive fleets and there subs are not that useful even though they can still be important additions for when you face an opposing fleet and need some more offensive power and more hit points.
Any German navy strat for AA50 is probably gonna do the same as in AAR. Axis will loose to most experienced players, Russians will pressure Germany on the Eastern Front and Germany will not sink any allied ships unless someone makes a big mistake.
Not sure if this would work, but it would be an interesting attempt.
G1 move all subs/sea units to Z6 (your going to lose your trans sadly), build 2-3 additional subs and at least 1 bomber this turn as well.
Now as far as air moves there up to you, but the fleet in Z12 must die (as that destroyer can reach you this turn), you can hit it with 3 figs easily and if you want to risk it hit the Z9 fleet with your bomber, Egypt, or against Russia.
The downside is the UK keeps there battleship, and they may or may not go after your subs with it, that is why you may want to move the cruiser there as well (help sink the BB). I’m not sure what the odds are for 3 subs vs a BB are, but I expect your subs would win, if not they can submerge and the BB can be dealt with next turn. This will put the UK off to placing a fleet nearby, and with the bomber or two they will be hesitant to try to block you in. Also, your sub fleet can take two routes out if they want. Just an idea.
The other thing you could try is a turn 1 AC and build subs, not sure how well that would work.
Germany will not sink any allied ships unless someone makes a big mistake.
Mistake means that they didn’t buy destroyers?
From UK2 allies should be in control of the Atlantic ocean. At latest US2. Unless Germany buys navy, then maybe US+UK must wait until rnd 3, but Germany cannot out build her enemies in the sz’s.
AA50 is not different from AAR in this matter, there are other aspects of the game which demands different strategies than Revised.
And yes, for 8 ipc I think 1-2 DD’s can be good as fodder, if the ones you start with are too few, but the most powerful fleet killers are bombers.
Mistake means that they didn’t buy destroyers?
Well let them.
Subs are cheap and good even if destroyers are present.
One objective of a german navy is to keep UK out of the baltic, and the keep controll of norway and finland.
Personally im still of the view that germanys job is to Hold Europe, untill japan arrives, (taking africa etc etc)
This will be easier with a fleet and or a big luftwaffe.
i’ve always felt for germany to last an extra turn or two, they should attack any uk navies that are in range. subs + bomber/fighters can always reach something in the first round
I think you are right…
in G1, each time the axis player looses an occasion to kill some brithis vessels, they will come back to haunt him, since chances are slim he will ever have the advantage in a future naval encounter.
I also agree with tin_snipes. Germany should always be sinking something allied.
I think it will be possible to buy 2 subs every turn for germany, and a dd block is a minor speed bump. If there is a dd blocking then you move in with subs/air and sink it. On the next turn if UK places a dd there again you can move away from it and out into the atlantic. (I believe you can move subs away from a dd in the combat move if you do not wish to engage in combat. This is a general rule. Correct me if I am wrong). So, you move those out and more in. Repeat. Call it the German sub-shuck.
Another way would be an IC in France.
Your strat could work…If you built an attack fleet of subs on G1 with the intent of launching them into the Atlantic on G2,and if the UK blocks SZ6 with a single destroyer,then Italy attacks the DD with its fighter and attempts to destroy it on I1. If successful,you have an opening to launch your subs out of the Baltic on G2.
This is a bit embarassing, but I actually didn’t think of the DD block in North Sea counter… :| Perhaps the idea of subs actually being a worthwhile buy for the first time in Axis & Allies history got me carried away and stopped my brain from working correctly!
you can sink the British DD in front or the English Channel during your combat move and then send the U-Boats to the North Atlantic on your non-combat move, can’t you?
(your Cruiser and Transport will be gone unless you buy an AC)
@Greand:
UK might want subs to kill the Italian fleet.
I would use fighters and bombers instead (once you sink the fleet you can still use them on land battles too)
@Greand:
Italy might ofcourse need a few subs.
yes, they are stylish :)
@Greand:
So subs will definitivly be usefull in AA50, sadly not so usefull for Germany I guess.
which is a shame since subs were more useful for Germany than for any other country in the war
@Greand:
But one question about subs: What happens if 3 subs attack 2 carriers with 4 planes?
: can the planes defend? (no Destroyers in the defending fleet)
: can planes be takes as cassulty?If the answere is no to both these question, the fact that Japan starts with very few destroyers will be a very very big limitation for them. US can build a few very deadly submarines which can litteraly destroy the Japan fleet
yeah! http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=12924.0 :-D
You could also set up a trap for allied navies, by sinking the dd and leaving your subs posted there.
If, by any chance, the german player was to be attacked by an english navy that would not dispose of a destroyer, they could trap them by submerging prior to the battle and coming back to attack the fleet on their turn, using planes togheter with the subs.
I don’t exactly remember the initial setup of the game and if uk disposes of a lot of destroyers, but in my opinion, this tactic could work at least once against inexperienced players.
