Italy Uses and Reasons for Being

[Admiral_Thrawn]

Italy at 124IPCS! :-o I applaud you. I never thought that would even be possible.

[Jennifer]

A)  Yes, I opened a box, my immortal soul shall forever be in jeopardy. (Although, I did buy two boxes.)

B)  I had a bunch of blue Axis and Allies pieces from another game and from a set of pieces I ordered way back when from MB and they shipped in the wrong colors (Got blue, bright red and a couple other whacko colors.)  So I had plenty of pieces.  Almost all my ships were in a giant fleet used to point England and America into submission.

C)  Once Italy had Caucasus, Ukraine, Eastern Ukraine, all of Africa, Trans-Jordan, Persia, India and Burma we (the Axis) decided to let Italy swarm the rest of the board.

Italy ended up with all the pacific islands, Kwangtung, England and all of the Americas leaving China and Russia (except what Italy already had) for the Germans and Japanese.

D)  The allies focused America and China against Japan exclusively and England and Russia against Germany exclusively.  This was highly effective in slowing both Japan and Germany to a near halt but no one was even paying attention to Italy.  Over 15 rounds I kept walking and building up.  The only times I was attacked was in the Ukraine and Caucasus really.

I think England/America felt they could easily spank me back out of Africa if they could get and hold France. (I almost never had any significant units in Italy, just whatever I built and maybe a fighter.)

My lack of defense in Italy forced Germany to defend the west and slowed them against Russia, but Germany did a stellar job of keeping England’s navy to a dull roar. (Transports that auto die when attacked really make life easier for Germany!)  Meanwhile, my new cruiser or two a round all but denied the allies any foothold in the Med.

In Summation:  I still have a factory sealed box for AA 50.  And this was the 1941 scenario, no NOs

[Romulus]

:-D

Fratelli d’Italia l’Ialia s’è desta!!!

I love this strategy Jen!

Only one doubt:

@Cmdr:

(Transports that auto die when attacked really make life easier for Germany!)

Did it mean that Allied players leaved transports alone to be sunk by the German?

[Jennifer]

@Romulus:

Only one doubt:

@Cmdr:

(Transports that auto die when attacked really make life easier for Germany!)

Did it mean that Allied players leaved transports alone to be sunk by the German?

It means the allies cannot leave transports alone, resulting in them spending a lot more on protection for transports. (Long Range bombers can sink any transports in the Atlantic if they are unprotected basically.)

So the allies end up spending more on carriers, fighters, cruisers and destroyers and less on ground units.

[Romulus]

Ok!!! I understood! Thanks!

[TG Moses VI]

Cmdr Jennifer,

Were you playing against yourself?  Because if I was the Allies and saw Italy’s IPC count rise above 100, I would’ve surrendered by that point.  Or who knows maybe your friends are masochists.  :roll:

Anyways,

The strategy of Italy diving deep into Africa is not a new idea and is probably what Larry Harris envisioned in the first place.  If ever I saw an inventive strategy it would be Imperious Leader using Italy as a screening force to protect Germany’s southern flank in Russia and consolidate German gains with fighter support.  To me that just screams combined arms, even though that’s the improper use of the word.

Jennifer is right, +11 IPCs in Africa (up +2 since the last time I played A&A) is too good to pass up.  In the old days, Germany and Japan linking hands at the Suez Canal usually signaled Allied defeat.  I know it’s difficult to fathom Italy introducing spaghetti to the Swahili, but hey, Italy did make up a significant portion of Panzer Army Africa and maybe Rommel was secretly Italian.  The main problem I see is the inclusion of only two cruisers for Italy, which was a complete faux pas by Wizards.

Historically the game makes more sense this way.  The Anglo-American effort began with Operation Torch, not Normandy.  If I were the Allies, my initial focus would be expelling the Axis from Africa – historically German has always struggled to hold Africa.  With Africa cleared, then I’d worry about France.  With that said, if you follow history, the next landing spot after Africa is Italy.  However getting transports to the Boot is a logistical nightmare.  Maybe Larry Harris wanted to show Italy was not, as Churchill said, the soft underbelly of Europe.   :wink:

[Krupp Steel]

awesome!

Italy is my favorite faction by far, I am just so pumped to play them tomorrow,thanks for the great read Jen.
Really interesting to see that Italy can become a massive monster!
I plan on using the same strategy tomorrow, I will post here after our game to let you know how it wen’t. :mrgreen:

[Imperious Leader]

Italy is an elite commando raiding nation. They play the “Vikings of the Mediterranean”

every turn they kill somebody with the 3 shore shots and land 4 land units on various shores. They also play Germany’s “shadow man” and follow their master like a good little igor.

[Bardoly]

I agree that Italy’s main goal should be to take and hold Africa, only changing his tactics if there is an emergency, (I feel that if UK takes France , then Italy must recapture France to nullify America’s bonus.) but my group did let Germany take Africa 1 game, and Germany was able to use the extra IPCs well.  In our games, the bigest problem is that if UK or US really wants to in the early stages of the game, either one can usually sink Italy’s fleet, and there goes Italy.  Jen, what were your first 3 turn buys if you remember, and without playing with NOs, how many turns did it take Italy to get to 20+ IPCs - probably 4 or more without NOs.

Of course, in a game without NOs, Italy achieves closer parity with the other players because Italy’s max bonus from NOs is 10, while the other players can often get 15.

[TG Moses VI]

Italy is an elite commando raiding nation. They play the “Vikings of the Mediterranean”

Yeah, who knew.  Maybe the Ghost of Cesar inspired the Italians to fight.

I agree that Italy’s main goal should be to take and hold Africa, only changing his tactics if there is an emergency, (I feel that if UK takes France , then Italy must  recapture France to nullify America’s bonus.) but my group did let Germany take Africa 1 game, and Germany was able to use the extra IPCs well.

The more I think about it, the more Italy strikes me as a glue player.  Whether its fending off Allied landings on the mainland, serving as auxiliaries to the German mandate in the Caucasus, or being a general nuisance the Mediterranean – being Italy is cool for once.  I don’t think anyone could blame Italy for not being a team player if they sacrificed their fleet to buy the Axis time elsewhere.

[madquest8]

Italy is Mr Navy for a fact… LOL !  They start with a better Navy than Germany (Whose ships should be annihilated on Round 1) and you can just add more and more Navy to Italy every round… you don’t have to worry about the ‘lag’ Uk has near India…

The Italians are Laughing !!

[WOPR]

@Bardoly:

In our games, the bigest problem is that if UK or US really wants to in the early stages of the game, either one can usually sink Italy’s fleet, and there goes Italy.

Axis must be employing a poor strategy if that is possible.

[Flashman]

@Bardoly:

In our games, the bigest problem is that if UK or US really wants to in the early stages of the game, either one can usually sink Italy’s fleet, and there goes Italy.

Which is historically exactly what happened. The British raid on Taranto so weakened the Italian fleet, psychologically more than physically, that it barely dared put to sea and spent the rest of the war skulking in the Adriatic.

Regarding Italy in Africa, my version gives Italy control of all Vichy territories as well as Finland and Romania, which means that Italy starts with more of the map than Germany, albeit mostly worthless desert.  This makes the med/Africa very much an Italian affair, though they can feed “Italian” units into Russia via Finland and Romania.

[Romulus]

Exact but not complete.

Italy was weakend at Taranto because Regia Marina lost, definitely, 1 BB and two more BBs where badly damaged. Psychologically the UK raid at Taranto had the effect you said.
However Regia Marina tried to organize an offensive action of the Fleet in the March of 1941. 1 BBs escorted by 6 CA and various DD and covered by land based planes were used for attacking the Brithish shipping reinforcements to Greece. The raid ended with Italian lost of 3 CA and BB Vittorio Veneto (flagship) torpedoed.
This shown the risk of operating with the Fleet without having air cover provided by ACs.
From that days the Italian Fleet was used only in the sea near to the Italy.

Maybe in Anniversary an Italian AC could be useful?

[vivaldi]

In my last game, when the allies realized Italy was pretty well doing what it wanted (after it took caucasus for germany), they sent the American fleet snooping around.  I bought an aircraft carrier and auto placed my two fighters on it, which sent the fleet skulking away.

[Lynxes]

Maybe in Anniversary an Italian AC could be useful?

Keeping the Italian navy is vital to mount a threat and keep those bonuses floating. Buying a CV is the way to get defensive points to match the UK/US attacks. I bought a CV on turn 2 in a game and landed first the Italian fighter and then one German fighter on it, that really slowed down the Allies. You can then add DDs to get extra hit points.

Of course, almost always Italy will be the first Axis power to go and it will signal the defeat of the Axis in most games. Which means playing Italy well is a crucial thing!

When it comes to optional rules I think they should go together. If Italy is hindered by the rule that the Black Sea is blocked, they really need interceptors since their economy is so vulnerable to SBR.

[Nickwins89]

From the moment I opened the box I saw that Italy was going to be very useful to the Axis, and it turns out they are. The guys I play with underestimate the power of Italy, and I’ve done quite well in handling their actions in the Mediterranean, but I have yet to conquer all of Afrika and show the Allies what they can do. It’s only a matter of time.

If the Japanese take over the British Empire in the East, and the Italians manage to break through into the underbelly of Afrika, the allies and most importantly the UK have a big problem on their hands.

[Shakespeare]

In the games we have played, the fate of Italy determines the fate of the Axis.

If Italy does well and can hold off the USA/UK incursions into the Med, then the Axis as a whole do well.

However, if the USA/UK combine to get into and stay in the Med then Italy is doomed and therefore the Axis is doomed too!

The Allies strat ought to be KIF

[atarihuana]

well, if italy is attacking russia for shoere shots, they will soon be the “axis china” , producing 1- 3 inf per turn. the games where i had italy, there was not one single round ( except first) where he was not SBRed. so once italy falls, better make sure russia is down next round or germany is doomed.

[Historybuff]

I agree with you Jennifer,  Italy (if ignored for at least 3 turns) can turn into a monster, and before you know it Africa is gone.  Also in one game I played the US and UK ignored Italy for 5 whole turns and by the time they sent thier fleet down to stop them Italy had a monster of a fleet and sank both the US’s fleet and the UK’s fleet thus giving Germany time to take Russia.