Playtest report and conclusions

[Silent Observer]

Correct me if i’m wrong, but i believe Germany starts the game with 19 inf where some might be needed to defend France from UK and US attacks, while Russia starts with a whopping 39. While Ger has got enough punch units, it does not have the quantities it needs, therefore a boost to the infantry stack seems like the best thing to do for Germany in the early game. Perhaps they should even have built more, but unfortunately 10 is their production limit.

[marechallannes]

First you go for the english fleet in northern atlantic, especially their transports to avoid bigger amphibious landings in turn 1 and 2. This will give you space for building offensive units.

You need a base production of 3 - 4 german infantry per turn. But not to establish fortress europe. The german infantry is cannonfodder for the Ostfront.

As the UK player im afraid of german combined figther-, bomber- and sub-attacks vs. my homefleet ant the transports, not a bunch of sauerkraut eating infantry in france and north-west europe.

[Driel310]

My dear Marechallens, do you have any idea how much IPC UK has on the first turn?

A whopping 43! Add to that that 1 DD, and 1 CA will always survive G1 and you have your fleet build (even in SZ2 if needed) on UK1.

Germany needs the infantry bad, really really bad like silent observer described or the Soviets will be knocking on your doorstep on R3/R4.

[JohnBarbarossa]

@marechallannes:

PS: Generalfeldmarschall Rommel würde sich im Grabe rumdrehen.

Rommel would certainly not turn around inside his grave for such a purchase, since Rommel was a great strategist.
Armour, planes and ships don’t conquer and occupy territories. Infantry does, and in large quantities.
You surely don’t know what you are talking about. Bring on that allied play of yours.

[Imperious Leader]

lets also be a bit more cordial to our posters. Lets them build 30 infantry a turn if they like. If its not correct you can prove it in the game forums.

[cousin_joe]

@Craig:

Most of the time we spent playtesting was done under constantly changing maps and rules.  As such, we actually only did a small portion of our work with the final map (which then changed a bit after that), the NOs were a bit different from what they are now, some of the rules changed slightly, and the tech was not like this at all.
Craig

Hey Craig,

Just out of curiosity… are you able to say what the tech was like when you were playtesting?

Also, were there ever any convoy raiding type of rules/NOs, and were the ICs ever tried at a lower price than 15IPCs?

Thanks.

[marechallannes]

@JohnBarbarossa:

@marechallannes:

PS: Generalfeldmarschall Rommel würde sich im Grabe rumdrehen.

Rommel would certainly not turn around inside his grave for such a purchase, since Rommel was a great strategist.
Armour, planes and ships don’t conquer and occupy territories. Infantry does, and in large quantities.
You surely don’t know what you are talking about. Bring on that allied play of yours.

That is a typical russian tactic.

Rommel won his battels with fast tanks and mechanized infantry.

My tip:
Janusz Piekalkiewicz (from Poland) “Der Wüstenkrieg in Afrika”
or
Paul Carell (from Germany) “Die Wüstenfüchse”

…and in AA50 you can conquer and occupy territories with a single infantry. LOL

[marechallannes]

@Driel310:

My dear Marechallens, do you have any idea how much IPC UK has on the first turn?

A whopping 43! Add to that that 1 DD, and 1 CA will always survive G1 and you have your fleet build (even in SZ2 if needed) on UK1.

Germany needs the infantry bad, really really bad like silent observer described or the Soviets will be knocking on your doorstep on R3/R4.

I know the UK IPC starting income very well. But as the british player you have to care about africa, india and australia too.

What is your german production an G2? 12 infantry?

The german has to kick the russian fast and that does not work only with infanry.

PS: Hey, I dont want to say you are noobs or something like that. But 10 inf in G1 seems very special.

[Driel310]

@marechallannes:

@Driel310:

My dear Marechallens, do you have any idea how much IPC UK has on the first turn?

A whopping 43! Add to that that 1 DD, and 1 CA will always survive G1 and you have your fleet build (even in SZ2 if needed) on UK1.

Germany needs the infantry bad, really really bad like silent observer described or the Soviets will be knocking on your doorstep on R3/R4.

I know the UK IPC starting income very well. But as the british player you have to care about africa, india and australia too.

What is your german production an G2? 12 infantry?

The german has to kick the russian fast and that does not work only with infanry.

PS: Hey, I dont want to say you are noobs or something like that. But 10 inf in G1 seems very special.

Ehhh, because you are unable to place 12 infantry.  :-D

G2 buy is usually 9 inf, 1 rtl + 1 IC in France.  :wink:

[Perry]

A note on German Production…
I’m on my third game of AA50 so far – with the wrong setup of course, but anyhow LOL …
What I’ve seen is that Germany is in the Income range of 40-55(!) ipc/turn, for the first 4-5 rds or so.
However, it has only 10 Production slots in Germany…Even if it takes KAR (CAU can be defended for some time , by the Ruskies), they still are only at 12 Production slots…

In order to use all its IPCs, therefore, it prolly should spend some ipcs on research, ics or more expensive units like Arm, Bmbs or naval, just to use up its ipcs   :-)

[Driel310]

That’s why we build the IC in France. With all the infantry buys it’s a lot easier to make a Fortress Europe with Germany if the Allies go KGF, and with 16 production capacity you also have the luxury of not repairing all the SBR damage, only the damage required to place your build.  :wink:

[Richter von Manthofen]

Sorry if I sound like a teacher now ;), but doesn’t your build depend on your overall strategy (and units available).

10Inf sound like a good build if there is such an allied (Russian) infantry supremacy.

Also 10 inf give you a lot of cannon fodder for both attack and defence.

i have done games where Germany lost the game in turn 1 because it won its initial games, but had to choose tanks as casualty even during attack and then Russia attacked back and could kill many of the remaining good german units.

I am an old style (pre revised AA gamer) and grand strategy said: Attack with a mix of INF Tanks and  FTRs, but make sure that you have enough inf to survive the counter attack.

Revised is even more dangerous. drop a few Atry in and infantry (withouit) is even a good attack force.

I will hold final judgement until I get my copy of AA50 and have done a few trial games, but friom what is known national advantages and the posibility of reducing ones building capacity will certainly alter the flow and feel of the game.

Avanti Savoia :D

[cousin_joe]

@Craig:

@cousin_joe:

@Craig:

Most of the time we spent playtesting was done under constantly changing maps and rules.  As such, we actually only did a small portion of our work with the final map (which then changed a bit after that), the NOs were a bit different from what they are now, some of the rules changed slightly, and the tech was not like this at all.
Craig

Hey Craig,

Just out of curiosity… are you able to say what the tech was like when you were playtesting?

I will have to go back and look at my info to make sure exactly what we did, but I will say that the the present system of two charts was arrived at after we were done playtesting.

Also, were there ever any convoy raiding type of rules/NOs, and were the ICs ever tried at a lower price than 15IPCs?

Convoys/Convoy Raiding was never used, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t discussed. :-D  NOs came into the mix late and there wasn’t any thought of a Convoy NO.  Actually, the ICs were 20 IPCs!

Thanks.

Thanks for the reply.  I’d definitely be curious about the Tech

Too bad Convoys never made it in.  It would have helped to create a lot more action in the Atlantic and Pacific.

Wow, I can’t imagine ICs at 20IPC.  It seems like there may have been concern that ICs in certain locations could be too powerful.  The one that immediately jumps to mind (and these gentleman have already brought up), is the France IC.

Once Germany is cashing out at 40-45IPC, the France IC almost becomes a must.  What’s great about it though, is you can plop down destroyers for stalling, or even an insta-Navy if UK is caught napping.

[Perry]

Doesn’t the French IC weaken your march towards the Russian Front?

I’ve found that even if Germany is making 50+ in cash, it still hasdifficulties bringing up infantry towards the russian front…

I’ve been toying with the idea of an IC in Poland, but it really seems like an awkward position, vulnerable to Allied Amphibs…

Any thoughts on this ?

[Lucifer]

I think many strats from AAR will be relevant in AA50, but not all strats, and certainly not to the same extent.

IC in France is probably a bad idea, also because you have to buy an AA gun too, to give a minimum of SBR protection to newlybuilt ICs.
IC in Poland could be ok, but Poland can be reached from the Baltic seazone, so yeah, thats a bad idea.

Generally its a bad strat to place IC in any territory that is worth less than 3 ipc. This fact will probably apply for AA50 as well as AAR.
And the production limit for Germany doesn’t bother me at all, if I can place 5 tanks + 5 bmrs each rnd, then I’m a very happy axis player  :-D

The total ipc value for the power(s) you are controlling is much more important then the 10 units max limit.
UK also have a limit of 8 units maximum.

[JohnBarbarossa]

@Subotai:

IC in France is probably a bad idea, also because you have to buy an AA gun too, to give a minimum of SBR protection to newlybuilt ICs.
IC in Poland could be ok, but Poland can be reached from the Baltic seazone, so yeah, thats a bad idea.

Time will have to tell if this is really a good way or not. More testgames are needed and we need the real setup as well. But I really think you need the extra production otherwise you can’t keep up with the Russians and the Allies at the same time.
Sure you will be buying more armour and planes due to these new rules, but if you only buy armours, fighters and bombers. Russia will be knocking on the doors of the Reichstag with their cheap infantry.
Also you need it as a defense against any SBR campaign. If the Allies bomb you for 6 you can still produce 10.
Sure you will need to defend it. But France need to be defended without an IC anyway. Because if the allies take it and hold it and buy an IC of their own… then you really are in trouble.

I think Germany need the extra production for these reasons and I don’t see any better spot than France (IPC wise).

[cousin_joe]

If SUBs were actually viable, France would be automatic for IC placement.

With SUBs not doing any economic damage, and basically automatically killed by any attack force with a DD then maybe it’s a little less of a sure thing

If Germany is cashing out at 45-50IPCs though early on, and facing a KGF (which they most likely will be), then yeah, France is good for producing your 15-16INF/TURN while you wait for Japan to take out Moscow… yawn  :roll:

[Funcioneta]

@cousin_joe:

If SUBs were actually viable, France would be automatic for IC placement.

With SUBs not doing any economic damage, and basically automatically killed by any attack force with a DD then maybe it’s a little less of a sure thing

If Germany is cashing out at 45-50IPCs though early on, and facing a KGF (which they most likely will be), then yeah, France is good for producing your 15-16INF/TURN while you wait for Japan to take out Moscow… yawn  :roll:

I disagree. The reason of subs not being viable for Germany is not that they cannot do economic damage. It’s because allied fleet can simply toast them by pure numbers. It’s a trouble with having a so small Atlantic ocean, ther is no place where subs can hide from fleets.

And I’m not sure about the very possibility of doing a ignore Japan strat, at least with NOs

[axis_roll]

@Funcioneta:

@cousin_joe:

If SUBs were actually viable, France would be automatic for IC placement.

With SUBs not doing any economic damage, and basically automatically killed by any attack force with a DD then maybe it’s a little less of a sure thing

If Germany is cashing out at 45-50IPCs though early on, and facing a KGF (which they most likely will be), then yeah, France is good for producing your 15-16INF/TURN while you wait for Japan to take out Moscow… yawn  :roll:

I disagree. The reason of subs not being viable for Germany is not that they cannot do economic damage. It’s because allied fleet can simply toast them by pure numbers. It’s a trouble with having a so small Atlantic ocean, ther is no place where subs can hide from fleets.

Convoy raiding subs can be protected by other surface vessels.  Being able to do convoy raids would still make these ‘protected’ subs useful:  They would be soaking UK for cash.

This would make naval investment by Germany more viable as their return on their investment is higher than throwing subs out there to be killed.

[Guest]

Subs should have some badass ability, like the ability to snipe off transports without being fired upon.

Or economic damage, i don’t care.