@hengst Just found Siredblood’s Italian Rule. Did not realize how similar it was. Holy moly.
Adding Italy
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They did in Stalag 13. Just ask Sgt. shultz. :-D
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LOOK AT MY NAME!!! italiansarecoming italy fought hard italy if in japans place woudl take over chian italy just didnt have enough german support expecially when the usa came
germany came with supllies to late + whe germany attacked russia and said oh im gonna leave great britian som1 who just wooped my ass to italy som1 just a bit higher then france.
ya italy fought hard and im surprised they held out that long
so dotn say italians in ww2 were useless they creamed probably more egyptians then egyptians creaming italians booya italians say hi and win -
Sure Italians were poorly equipped and with bad leaderships but italian men were still able to fight well. Italian units behaved bad on average and Italy was “the soft underbelly” of the Axis as Churchill said. This is History but there are also a lot of exaggeration on bad episodes. And if one consider specific bad episodes have also to consider specific good episodes.
As for winners and losers writing history. As the winner exalt italians, according to you, they also exalt Germans or not? We have the myth of the invincible panzers divisions that at last were all shredded to pieces no matter their supposed superiority. How was this possible? Maybe some italians were in the key role of the panzers divisions?
Losers, instead, give all the shame of Germany defeat to Italy, so: Germany needed Italy to win otherwise how could be possible to lose for the lack of support from a useless ally? I mean if Italy was useless and Germany lose cause of Italy then Italian support has to be necessary to Germany for winning. If one is responsible of a defeat then he has to be important for the victory too.
There is a lot of propaganda about Germany efficiency in WWII, spread out by the winners for increase the value of their victory and by the losers to exalt their nation. While exalting the Whermacht, however, it is also necessary to give an explanation of its defeat. Easy done: Germans lose the war because they was allied with Italians. It is easy to say and also it is more convenient.
We in Italy have a proverb that in english may be roughly translated in this way: “if you ask to the water vendor if his water is fresh than he will surely answer that it is cold and pure as the ice”.
In the field of fun house rules…
It is possible to use house rules in wich Italian units hit on 0 while attacking and immediatly run away while on defense, naturally they have to receive the fire of the attacker. This may be done considering defending italian units able to provide opening fire to all the attacking units and then retreat (run away) after removing the casualties and without firing back.
Probably it is also useful to consider German units able to absorb three or more hits before being destroyed and hitting on 6 both in attack and defense.
And finally the more important rule: even if Axis lose the game German player may never be considered loser and may give the guilt of the defeat to the Italian player! -
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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ITALY deserves to be played man dont dis italy ok
italy was rly good dont dis em man i coem and say boo ya the reason italy lsot u.s.a and gb had combined forces against italy which is the strentgh of japan with out all the islands and peaces of chian no dissing italy except for greece they sucked in greece
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Here is my two cents on the subject…
First, do not underestimate Italian special operations. They pulled some of the most daring & amazing stunts during the Second World War.
Second, Italian naval doctrine in the 1930s was built around speed. Italian warships were by far the fastest units on the sea at the time. They just weren’t properly deployed to use their speed to their advantage.
I would highly recommend The Mediterranean for some futher reading.
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The italians did well in some wars but many in italy did not see the reason to fight for the axis besides gettting paid.
The italians did go through rough times like eastern front when the italians ran away a lot. How the italians sacrificed fleets(i would say)
The italians fought the greeks when fighting egypt and lost no surprising (greece was fairly strong if greece and the british fought italy with some german help the greeks and brits would probably win)The italians did fight well in the african wars well early african wars when great britian could not send as much supplies since germany kept bobming the brits.
The italians i would liek to piont at they did not lose in africa until the u.s.a came in -
Hitler also woefully underused certain Italian units. In Case blue, Hitler chose not to send the elite Mountain Itlalian units to help conquer the Caucasus. These Crack Alpini soldiers trudged along the hot, flat plains of southern Russia in the summer of '42, guiding mules while keeping their now useless climbing gear under canvas, close at hand but far from use. These men along with other elite Italian units were used as a ‘barrier’ between the Hungarians and Romanians (two historical enemeis) in the sixth armies left flank at Stalingrad. Such circumstances are to blame for such dreadful performances on the eastern front. Low morale, poor leadership (both Italian and German), and a powerful Soviet counter-stroke.
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The axis could have done so many easier things even if germany took great britian russia and u.s.a when they joined germany could have still won. the axis just always chose bad moves except at the very very begining of the war like germany going through belgium and such smart moves :cry:
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Somebody noticed that russians fought stronger and better then Italians
that might be true, cause in the USSR, it takes more courage to retreat then to advance…Italy should get it’s navy, and it would balance game up: now, we always have a germany takin moscow in ± round 3-4
with italy, game might last longer and still give germany a chance to win.and, we have some new, cool Italian pieces because of AA50 :-)
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Our group added Italy into AAR and starting poking around with AAE to have them too. Our version of AAR with them is a good bit similar to what the Anniversary setup, with Italy, parts of the Balkans and northern Africa split between Germany & Italy. Most of the navy in the Med went to Italy, but Germany was given a transport. Germany’s IPC values were bumped up and Russia was as well to compensate.
Our thoughts were that the AAE setup could be much the same, though spread out abit more with the extra territories. Maybe a couple extra British units in the Oil territories and additional IPCs to Russia. -
I really enjoy this Historical discussion But I am very interested in adding ITALY to AAE.
Just to weigh in on the Above off topic discussion: ITALY fought well Early in the war. I just finished reading Winston Churchill’s politzer Prize winning History (All six books) of the Second World War. 1940/41 ITALY was a real threat to UK possessions and shipping in the Med. Remember that ITALIANS pushed the Brits all the way to Egypt at this time! Even ITALIAN subs were a huge problem and this is not represented in AAE. It was inadequate leadership, supplies and commitment to the conflict that lead to the military disasters of teh invasion of Greece and Africa!
As for the topic at hand:
Has anyone tried adding Italy?
Are there enough units in the AA50 game to be used in AAE with ITALY?I think this will balance the game… I know of a game breaker strategy (Maybe post somewhere in this forum) where Germany goes straight for Moscow and ignores the rest of the war… (That is cheap by the way) Not 100% sure you need to bulk up Germany… The separation of some resources to ITALY may alleviate the above strategy and make players play the game in the way it was originally intended?
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AARHE already did this we have map file and rules to go. 1942 with italy is the name of file.
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I have to change my original opinion of the Italians upon further studies of the SS. While many of their units performed horribly on the Russian front, units enganged in repelling operation TORCH performed with extreme bravery. They originally were not allowed to where the SS patch on black and eventually many Italians wore red collar tabs with white SS runes instead.
After heavy losses and an extraordinary performance engaging the allies invading Italy, Himmler awarded them full SS status “with all rights and priviledges.” Even units not involved in the fighting directly were awarded this promotion. They were brought into Germany for further training. I’m learning that staunch Italian facists volunteers performed extremely well in the European theater despite being outnumbered and suffering heavy losses. Many units were upgraded to official SS units with a German officer as commander.
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@Imperious:
AARHE already did this we have map file and rules to go. 1942 with italy is the name of file.
Are there set-up charts available for AAE with ITALY?
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Under Tekkyy signature. look in house rules files
1942 italy
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Italy in AAE!!!
Try this site:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/20457
It is not a boxed game as it seems to be; just a rules set.
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My group play A&A Europe with Italy this way:
Italy control N. Italy, S. Italy, Libya and Tunisia, a total of 8 IPC at start.
Germany control the rest, a total of 32 IPC at start.Turn order:
Germany
USSR
Italy
UK
USAWe use the pieces and rules from A&A Anniversary ed. But with destroyers at 2 in combat value, the Brit set-up need 4 cruisers, or Germany need 2 subs less.
This pretty much fix the broken game. Germany used to buy 8 tanks against 8 russian infantry, and because of this they conquered Moscow in turn 5. Always. But not any more. The game is much more balanced with the A&A Anniversary rules and cost.
Also, to spice up the game:
The German army was very efficient because they used “Combined Arms tactic” and “Auftragstaktik”. So when german units attack or defend, roll all dice simultanesly, and then assign the hits to the proper units. Like germany attack with 4 inf, 2 tanks and 1 bomber. Roll 7 dice, and assign the 1’s to the inf, and the 3’s or less to the tanks, and a 4 or less to the bomber. The other army,s use the old Commanding system from Napoleon, so they roll all the infantry dice, looking for 1’s, and then roll all tanks dice, looking for 3’s or less, and so on.In naval battles, the brits use the Combined Arms tactic, and roll all dices simultanesly, and then assign the hits. And the other navies must roll the old fashion system, column by column.
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http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/20457
It is not a boxed game as it seems to be; just a rules set.hmmm, so the Italian Fleet remains German?…. I think that is best summed up by quoting a William Shatner song, “I just can’t get behind that.”
why not make them Italian since all the units there are Italian already. I didn’t see it in the rules either, but unless Germany can build in Italian shipyards they won’t be able to add to the fleet unless Italy does it, which means loss of coordination of the fleet.
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My group play A&A Europe with Italy this way:
Italy control N. Italy, S. Italy, Libya and Tunisia, a total of 8 IPC at start.
Germany control the rest, a total of 32 IPC at start.Aldertag, now this has some promise.
Do you find that with Germany is often moving into the ‘boot’ to bail out Italy too often? I’ve seen the 30-10 split to start but does 32-8 make much difference?
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