don’t agree with retreating into hostile submarines
a bit complex to add a rule to let those submarines roll against them, it’ll be like combat after combat done already
Ok then here is the fix: they can retreat into SZ with hostile sub. No combat occurs. ON the subs turn they may elect to attack or move away.
happy to allow retreating into hostile transports
but I though of other aspects related to transport should be discussed before changing to maintain consistency
In this case i think its an exploit of sorts, usually the transport is closer to your home nation , so your actually retreating “forward”. I think if you elect to do this the transport gets a free “dislodgement” move to any other SZ. Otherwise if they share SZ the transport should be destroyed would be the second course.
current: combat move, move through hostile transports is allowed
proposed: conduct combat, retreating into hostile transport is to be allowed
I would decline that idea. a sub is one thing… its undersea it can hide. A lone transport is a weaponless target. I like the dislodgement rule.
other aspects related to transport:
current: non-combat move, move into or through hostile transport not allowed
A, current: conduct combat, attacker cannot perform land portion of amphibious assault after attack declares break-off (p.12 Naval Combat: Amphibious Assault)
B, current: conduct combat, when both sides only have transports they both must retreat or break-off (p.11 Naval Combat: Retreat Decision)A+B = one friendly transport can’t move into one enemy transport to offload for amphibious assault
retreating into hostile submarines
so do we allow 1 transport + 1 destroyer to retreat from combat, into a SZ with 5 enemy submarines?
is that more or less realistic then retreating into a SZ with 1 destroyer?
retreating into hostile transports
actually you misunderstood
I am not saying the transport is retreating
the hostile transport is idle
the friendly fleet is retreating
lets resume the discussion
note none of the proposed changes in this thread has been implemented yet
we’ll try to be less ambiguous as we obviously misunderstood each other in the last posts
the 3 situations are related
*which SZ you can move thru in combat move
*which SZ you can retreat to
*which SZ you can move thru in non-combat move
so when we sugguest how to handle submarine or transport as an active (moving unit) or passive (stationary occupying unit) in one particular situation, consider to reflect, realistically, to other 2 situation
first up
currently
*friendly naval units may move through SZ occupied by hostile transports only, during combat move
Naval units may go through sea zones consisting of only hostile Submarines and/or Transports. from “Naval Movement” in “Phase 3: Combat Move”
so shall we add these?
*friendly naval units may move through SZ occupied by hostile transport only, during non-combat move
*friendly naval units may retreat to SZ occupied by hostile transport only, during conduct combat
the 3 situations are related
*which SZ you can move thru in combat move
*which SZ you can retreat to
*which SZ you can move thru in non-combat moveso when we suggest how to handle submarine or transport as an active (moving unit) or passive (stationary occupying unit) in one particular situation, consider to reflect, realistically, to other 2 situation
first up
currently
*friendly naval units may move through SZ occupied by hostile transports only, during combat move
Naval units may go through sea zones consisting of only hostile Submarines and/or Transports. from “Naval Movement” in “Phase 3: Combat Move”
so shall we add these?
*friendly naval units may move through SZ occupied by hostile transport only, during non-combat move
*friendly naval units may retreat to SZ occupied by hostile transport only, during conduct combat
well not really. Its too ambiguous sounding.
it should read:
Enemy transports cannot stop your naval movement during either movement phase or as a result of a retreat to the zone when your under attack.
Enemy submarines must also allow your naval units to pass thru without delay but may attempt to engage in a one round naval combat action. Lastly, your unescorted transports can never move past enemy subs unless the subs elect to decline combat action. In any other case multiple combat rounds occur.
well not really. Its too ambiguous sounding.
yeah they are points not text, I try to use italics when I reference actual text
anyway first up is transport as a passive occupying unit
(we’ll do submarine as a passive occupying unit later)
point: *friendly naval units may move through SZ occupied by hostile transport only, during non-combat move
currently, under Phase 3: Combat Move, Naval Movement
Naval units may go through sea zones consisting of only hostile Submarines and/or Transports.
propose, under Phase 5: Non-Combat Move, I’ll add
Naval units may go through sea zones consisting of only hostile Transports.
point: *friendly naval units may retreat to SZ occupied by hostile transport only, during conduct combat
currently, under Phase 4: Conduct Combat, Naval Combat: Retreat Decision, Defender Retreat, I’ll add
Retreating naval units may retreat to any adjacent friendly sea zones.
propose, change it to
Retreating naval units may retreat to any adjacent friendly sea zones, or adjacent hostile sea zones occupied by submarines only.
propose, under Phase 5: Non-Combat Move, I’ll add
Naval units may go through sea zones consisting of only hostile Transports.
- Enemy transports cannot stop your naval movement during either movement phase or as a result of a retreat to the zone when your under attack.
Both statements don’t convey the same meaning. Adding the word “hostile” Transports makes people wonder if the variant implies a special condition for transports. Its more clear to say enemy.
propose, change it to
Retreating naval units may retreat to any adjacent friendly sea zones, or adjacent hostile sea zones occupied by submarines only.
This is not the same meaning at all. It does not make note of the option of the owner of the sub to enforce one combat round at his discretion. Nor does it elude to the fact that YOUR transports cant pass over enemy subs ( not hostile subs).
Its more clear to say enemy.
ok
so
Phase 5: Non-Combat Move
proposal
Naval units may go through sea zones consisting of only hostile Transports.
becomes
Naval units may go through sea zones consisting of only emey Transports.
This is not the same meaning at all. It does not make note of the option of the owner of the sub to enforce one combat round at his discretion.
sorry, typo
this is about transports, not subs yet
so
Phase 4: Conduct Combat
proposal
Retreating naval units may retreat to any adjacent friendly sea zones, or adjacent hostile sea zones occupied by submarines only.
becomes
Retreating naval units may retreat to any adjacent friendly sea zones, or adjacent hostile sea zones occupied by transports only.
all good?
if so we look at submarines next
so
Phase 5: Non-Combat Move
proposal
Naval units may go through sea zones consisting of only hostile Transports.
becomes
Naval units may go through sea zones consisting of only emey Transports.
except its ‘enemy’ :-D
Quote
This is not the same meaning at all. It does not make note of the option of the owner of the sub to enforce one combat round at his discretion.
sorry, typo
this is about transports, not subs yet
yes then add that point as well. saying Hostile does not help the meaning any better. Just add a second sentence regarding the option. Leave out words like hostile and use enemy because its more exact. Hostile makes people think why does he not just say enemy. So you add the sentence about the other option and its cleared up.
so
Phase 4: Conduct Combat
proposal
Retreating naval units may retreat to any adjacent friendly sea zones, or adjacent hostile sea zones occupied by submarines only.
becomes
Retreating naval units may retreat to any adjacent friendly sea zones, or adjacent hostile sea zones occupied by transports only.
yes thats better.
all good?
if so we look at submarines next
ok now we deal with submarines
(enemy submarines as passive stationary units)
if you want to be able to move through enemy submarines in non-combat move, I am ok with it
if you want to be able to retreat into a sea zone occupied by enemy submarines, I am not sure about that (as mentioned)
if so I rather we let defender retreat into ANY adjacent sea zone
if you want to be able to move through enemy submarines in non-combat move, I am ok with it
yes they can pass thru. no special dispensations.
if you want to be able to retreat into a sea zone occupied by enemy submarines, I am not sure about that (as mentioned)
if so I rather we let defender retreat into ANY adjacent sea zone
They can retreat to ANY sea zone not occupied by enemy surface warships ( so they can enter SZ with subs or transports)
From now on subs and transports don’t do anything unless its their active turn.
Of course you can send ASW units and try and kill them by hunting them down.
also,have some new ideas for subs which are extremely simple, listed under AA50 house rules.
I want to make a new AARHE version for AA50 once we fix these semantic issues and clarifications.
I have a map that’s the best map you have seen. Id say its at least as good as the new map and done in the same style. Its 98% done. adding artistic items. I will release this and alot of files in a few weeks time.
