Most Important Piece

[AxisOfEvil]

@Cmdr:

The Russian fighters are only trading territories or cowering on the Russian capitol.

You might get more respect for your opinion if you didn’t use such inflammatory language. I mean, to use cowering for the self-admitted “second” most important piece in the game, you arent winning over any of the non-believers.

So when a moscow battle goes badly, you take a uk bomber before a russian fighter? interesting. No need to reply, i know a fighter defends at 4 while bomber defends at 1.

And you speak of “typical” games where russia is earning 30+. I recall a debate about this before on this forum. In a typical (IMO) game, japan takes bury pretty early, and SFE + yakut not far after. That 3 ipc. So for russia to earn even 30 ipc, they need to be trading EE, balkans, or norway pretty early. and to earn 30+ they need to trade 2 of 3 of these. If russia is trading 2 of 3 of these territories, i dont think u need the bomber or fighter!!!  :)  germany is toast.

As well as uk earning in the teens. I think the emphasis that most put on countering egypt is to prevent Uk from earning in the teens. If you kill those germans tanks UK1, they cant blitz thru africa, and drain UKs income, and in my “typical” game, US get to afirca pretty early to regain that lost Uk income. My “typical” game has UK and russia earning about the same.

[Imperious Leader]

The Soviet fighters are the most irreplaceable units in the game considering Soviet options for safe play. That may not translate in the most important “piece”.

The Japanese first transport purchase and losing them is a huge hole for japan and can mean defeat if they are lost before they make their presence felt.

Germany losing 2 fighters or its bomber is a big hurt on Germany

I guess its got no answer because depending on strategy, some items are more valuable than others, because their is no finite rule about what strategy works best…only approximations of this truth based on ever changing conditions ( dice) and enemy plans. So its really impossible to say “this unit is the MVP of the game”

[Guest]

I think the Russian FIGs have got to be tied for the most important piece, perhaps THE most important piece that ever gets to attack in the game.

Other “most important pieces” would include the USA FIG in China and the UK FIG in Egypt.  Neither of those units ever seem to live long enough to attack, because they are so dangerous that virtually ALL strategies for this game include the death of those units before they can be killed.
:mrgreen:

[AxisOfEvil]

@ncscswitch:

I think the Russian FIGs have got to be tied for the most important piece, perhaps THE most important piece that ever gets to attack in the game.

Other “most important pieces” would include the USA FIG in China and the UK FIG in Egypt.  Neither of those units ever seem to live long enough to attack, because they are so dangerous that virtually ALL strategies for this game include the death of those units before they can be killed.
:mrgreen:

Along those lines, wouldnt the UK BB in the med be even more important then those fighters?

[Guest]

And the Pearl Fleet as well then.

Truth be told, OUTSIDE of Europe, I think the Jap SUB off Solomons is pretty damn important.  If it lives to be used at Pearl, it pretty much kicks the US out of the Pacific.

[Aretaku]

@ncscswitch:

Other “most important pieces” would include the USA FIG in China and the UK FIG in Egypt.  Neither of those units ever seem to live long enough to attack, because they are so dangerous that virtually ALL strategies for this game include the death of those units before they can be killed.

Glad someone else finally mentioned 'em.

I saw a J1 attack against China fail once…the results were NOT pretty for Japan.

No German player wants to watch that Egyptian fig go off and land somewhere else.

I’ve seen the Pearl Fig kill a BB all by itself.

These fighters are crucial pieces, hence my earlier comments.

[Crazy Ivan]

:cry:
I love it when my Jap transport off of Kwangtung survives! That is a pretty important piece for Japan. :wink:

[axis_roll]

@Crazy:

:cry:
I love it when my Jap transport off of Kwangtung survives! That is a pretty important piece for Japan. :wink:

And yet some players don’t even TRY to sink that tpt (UK1).  :? :? :?

[Jennifer]

@AxisOfEvil:

@Cmdr:

The Russian fighters are only trading territories or cowering on the Russian capitol.

You might get more respect for your opinion if you didn’t use such inflammatory language. I mean, to use cowering for the self-admitted “second” most important piece in the game, you arent winning over any of the non-believers.

I am sorry you took offense at my choice of words.  Honestly, I call it cowering in your capitol when you are reduced too, in effect, only your capitol and you have the main bulk of your army there.  (This of course does not mean you ONLY have your capitol, you may have say Evenki as Russia or maybe you are trading W. Europe or S. Europe with Germany, but in those cases, you are pretty much reduced to just a capitol.)

In either event, the Russian fighters are almost only reduced to one of two rolls:

1)  Liberating Russian territory
2)  Defending Moscow from attack

Yes, they MIGHT one day land on an Allied carrier to defend their fleet.  They MIGHT one day make up for a botched American invasion of Berlin and finish clearing the land taking Berlin (with some Russian armor or infantry say) for the Allies.  They MIGHT one day land in W. Europe or S. Europe just long enough for the allies to pull in reinforcements.

Then again, my dead Grandmother may one day grow testicles.  Should I plan to start calling her Grandpa, or keep my ideas more mainstream? (Sorry, my attempt at humor there.)

Anyway, if Russia falls, what good are the Russian fighters now?  Granted, the British bomber is even more useless if England falls, but how often is it that England falls before Russia?  Now, how often is it that you need that extra umph with England (and America) to hit Germany and make it fall just before, during, or just after Russia falls?

Yes, it is a very bad thing to lose a Russian fighter.  Catastrophic?  No.  But I do feel, in my personal opinion, the damage potential of the British Bomber, without having to purchase one, is more conducive to the allies winning the game than a Russian fighter.

After all, if you have to trade Novosibirsk with 2 Infantry and a Fighter it costs you 6 IPC.  If you have to trade Novosibirsk with Infantry, Artillery then it costs you 7 IPC.  Not a huge difference in cost and both (when one infantry is defending) are pretty good odds of Russia winning the liberation.

But England only has the troops it can bring by transport to attack Germany (Usually, sometimes you have a stack in E. Europe or W. Europe, but then, you probably have your bomber in Russia to be used as first casualty as Germany is already defeated.).  That means the only way you can get more firepower is by air power.  A bomber you don’t have to pay for is worth an inestimable fortune in that case, to me.

[Crazy Ivan]

:-o
Oh no Jennifer, you didn’t write, testicles!
Now first off, only those with testicles may refer to testicles, in any joking matter, because those with testicles are sensitve on just how testicles can be joked about, and to imagine them hanging from your Grandmas’, er, uh, private area, is not viewed as paticularly humorous, by most of us anyway, (especially me for sure).
So, in future, stick to joking about what you got not what ya ain’t got, please.
Now I have to go wash out my brain from what I read on her post.
  :-P Gezz Jen, yukky, yuk, gaaaa…… :roll:

[dezrtfish]

I think that it would be funny if Jen’s gramy had testes

But I’m a pretty twisted individual so there you go…

[axis_roll]

Right on queue “Posting Jen”.  Page 4… post #4!

Same sort of silly rhetoric too.

Your sarcastic list of things Russian ftr(s) MIGHT do is only more reasoning WHY a Russian ftr is more important because, guess what… I HAVE used Russian ftr(s) in EVERY SINGLE way that you say they MIGHT be someday used:

• defending allied carriers

• taking Berlin

• supporting Western

• supporting Southern

Oh yes, I have used Russian ftr(s) after Moscow has fallen too.

[axis_roll]

@dezrtfish:

I think that it would be funny if Jen’s gramy had testes

But I’m a pretty twisted individual so there you go…

That might explain some of the posts we read in this forum

[Jennifer]

@axis_roll:

Right on queue “Posting Jen”.  Page 4… post #4!

Same sort of silly rhetoric too.

Your sarcastic list of things Russian ftr(s) MIGHT do is only more reasoning WHY a Russian ftr is more important because, guess what… I HAVE used Russian ftr(s) in EVERY SINGLE way that you say they MIGHT be someday used:

• defending allied carriers

• taking Berlin

• supporting Western

• supporting Southern

Oh yes, I have used Russian ftr(s) after Moscow has fallen too.

Yes, but is that the primary use you’ve used them for, or was that just a silly circumstance you found yourself in despite your best efforts to the contrary?

That’s the main difference.  Russian fighters are almost exclusively used to defend Moscow and trade two different territories each round.  The British bomber is almost exclusively used to crush Germany under the heel of the British Jack-Boot and failing that, to make Germany so whipped that when America’s turn comes around she screams “achtung!  May I please have another, Herr President!”

So i ask, is it better to defend Moscow or to take Berlin?

[axis_roll]

@Cmdr:

So i ask, is it better to defend Moscow or to take Berlin?

That’s a trick question.

and to that, I will answer “YES”

[dezrtfish]

@Cmdr:

So i ask, is it better to defend Moscow or to take Berlin?

I think Holding Moscow indefinatly will result in Allied win, Taking Germany will probably result in allied victory.  I have recovered games after losing Germany.

[Jennifer]

@dezrtfish:

@Cmdr:

So i ask, is it better to defend Moscow or to take Berlin?

I think Holding Moscow indefinatly will result in Allied win, Taking Germany will probably result in allied victory.  I have recovered games after losing Germany.

The only way that I know of for the allies to hold Moscow indefinitely is to send all the English and American forces it can to Moscow which negates taking Germany for a long time.

I honestly think it’s better to let Russia fall to Japan if you can get Germany.  Europe is denser and worth more, plus, it is easily fortified from England and America.  Russia is worth less and is hard to reinforce from Japan.

[AxisOfEvil]

@axis_roll:

Right on queue “Posting Jen”.  Page 4… post #4!

Same sort of silly rhetoric too.

Your sarcastic list of things Russian ftr(s) MIGHT do is only more reasoning WHY a Russian ftr is more important because, guess what… I HAVE used Russian ftr(s) in EVERY SINGLE way that you say they MIGHT be someday used:

• defending allied carriers

• taking Berlin

• supporting Western

• supporting Southern

Oh yes, I have used Russian ftr(s) after Moscow has fallen too.

Soooo  ….  does this mean for a fact that Jen’s dead grandmother has grown testicles? post photos?

[dezrtfish]

Lets be realistic here, the most important piece is of course, the first piece, because every other peice is always compared to the first piece :roll:

[ankmcfly]

The industrial complex is the most important piece. You can’t build diddly squat without owning one.

I voted for the British Bomber for this poll. Gotta wipe out the med fleet early and it helps a whole bunch.