[House Rules] The Cruiser

[M36]

@SS-GEN Didn’t have AA? Battleships were literally bristling with flak batteries. 20mm, 40mm, 3 inch guns…

[General 6 Stars]

@M36 according to my history techs they did but weren’t that efficient. I’ll go back and recheck. If I’m wrong then I’m wrong.

[M36]

@SS-GEN well you’re not wrong. AA in general wasn’t all that efficient except in huge quantities. It’s difficult to hit a target traveling over 200 mph. Look up the specs for ships like the Bismarck though. Extensive AA batteries because the supremacy of air power was not yet established so it was thought AA batteries would be adequate.

[barnee]

After rethinking it a bit I went ahead and gave them their 2nd shot back. Was only on 1st rd of test anyway. : )

So can play with the attack to 4 boost with the BB or just the AA boost for CA and BB or combine.

Might add the boost 2 DD Mursilis was talking about. Seems as if that might be fun to try

[General 6 Stars]

Battleships didn’t have the system on ships like the cruisers did. That’s that. So put in what ever you want in the fantasy game. I’m out.

[Imperious Leader]

@Argothair said in [House Rules] The Cruiser:

I always thought the “2-hit” idea was supposed to represent having extremely thick armor and durable hulls. I would think a battlecruiser would be more like C12 / A5 / D4 / M3 / 1-hit / bombard.

Were going to D12 already? I thought the point was to keep it simple, so keep D6 and the only way is to create new units with either special movement, 2 hit units, etc

In the game a battleship represents 4-6 and as you go downward the ratios get huge very fast. Subs represent about 30-40.

If your doing D12 i might make the BB an 8/6 on both attack and defense, the 8 representing the primary, 6 the secondary, and the primary is a preemptive shot ( because of longer range guns

The Battlecruiser withhold be a 7/5 unit

[Argothair]

@Imperious-Leader By “C12,” I mean that the cost is 12 IPCs. None of the systems I’ve proposed have ever used a D12.

[Imperious Leader]

BBs had many AA guns, but the Heavy Cruiser was a specialist in this regard, the Battlecruiser too. Look it up. The CA was defined as a patrol-er of the seas with long range ( which is why you assign more speed in a turn). But they were the best defenders for Carriers, because the Latter were build on a Cruiser hull. The BB’s were really used for assast, not protection dutys, which is why BBs usually were grouped together in planning for naval sorties. Cruiser types escorted the CV’s. Thats why they were built as the ultimate AA gun platforms.

[Imperious Leader]

@Imperious-Leader said in [House Rules] The Cruiser:

/ A5 / D4

which is greater than a BB? Huh. Impossible. Only in the Great War were some BC class outgunning the BB. In ww2, the primary Battleships ruled the waves in terms of guns and offensive potency. The Battlecruiser in the pure form was a generally lighter vessel so it could have greater speed, it traded the guns. But the primarys were stronger than Heavy Cruiser. Its basically a Battleship Jr.

Alot of Japans so called "BB’s were really Battlecruisers…Fast Battleships. UK 's say Repulse is listed as a Battleship and a Battlecruiser. Go figure, but it was a Battlecruiser

[Argothair]

@Imperious-Leader As you yourself pointed out a moment ago, each piece represents several actual ships, and higher-quality pieces tend to represent fewer ships. If it bothers you to think of one BC out-shooting one BB, then just imagine it’s a group of 8 BCs out-shooting a group of 3 BBs.

[Imperious Leader]

Yes that would work if the ratios were that extravegant.

the BB and BC shouls be about the same quantity, along with the Carrier

'But Cruisers, DD’s, SS, and AP’s change in ratios between classes.

BB 4-6
BC 6-8
CV 5-7
CA 10-18
DD 15-30
SS 20-45
AP 1 million tons of Merchant ships

[General 6 Stars]

So if you don’t want to add the L. Cruiser and H. Cruiser to game and combine the 2 ships into a Battle Cruiser what is your suggestion for the AA shot for this piece without adding more restrictions to piece. ( example only AA shot with a Carrier…).
D6 die
Battle Cruiser A2 D2 C12 M3 SHS 2. A hit can go towards a plane or ship.

[Imperious Leader]

Well it adds more richness to the game that instead of Heavy/Light idea ( realize the Heavy is most likely the predominant representation of the “Cruiser”)

WE look at the other classes of ships that could be modeled:

Battlecruiser’
Pocket battleship
Fast battleship

“Battle Cruiser A2 D2 C12 M3 SHS 2. A hit can go towards a plane or ship.”

it cant be that weak, its not a destroyer.

it has to be either a one hit 4-4, or a two hit 3-3

M3 and the hit allocation is possible. I feel it should be different by nation because they used them for different needs

Japan needed fast battleships
USA needed AA gun platforms
Cant identify the others without more research

[General 6 Stars]

You say a 4-4 1 hit of 3-3 2 hits. But does it get to take a hit on a plane every turn?

[Imperious Leader]

I think each nation gets to pick one attribute and its attached to the unit for the rest of the game:

choices are:
move 3
AA gun ( hit a plane idea)
?

So if you pick move 3, that’s the benefit you get for the game , every time you buy that unit it will move 3 ( or 4 from naval port)

This models the idea that each nation used the ship for entirely different purposes

[General 6 Stars]

Ya I can see that in away. Just be like an NA.
But I’d take the AA every time for a A4 D4.

[Mursilis]

Alright starting up the next game. Doing Cruiser at 12 IPC 4A 4D when paired with BB and can transport 1 infantry starting round 2. I’ll let you guys know how it goes.

[General 6 Stars]

For me I wouldn’t buy it. Good luck . Post results.

[Mursilis]

Well the cruiser is a big success. BB’s and cruisers are being purchases now and the starting positions help balance out the game in many ways. One of the best changes is making anzac a little stronger.

Everyone should give it a try. Definitely changes up the game for the better I feel.

Also if you are using the BM3 in your game live or online you want to use the vichy french rule. I was wrong about that. But you might want to take one infantry out in northern italy and add one mech infantry. This lets you pic if you want germany or Italy to take normandy to activate the vichy rule.

[General 6 Stars]

Always gonna help the minor Allie country’s