[House Rules] The Cruiser

[Argothair]

@Imperious-Leader If a battlecruiser means anything, though, it means a fast, powerful, lightly armored ship. Right, like in the old speed/power/armor trade-off, the battlecruiser was designed to get #1 and #2 by trading off #3.

I always thought the “2-hit” idea was supposed to represent having extremely thick armor and durable hulls. I would think a battlecruiser would be more like C12 / A5 / D4 / M3 / 1-hit / bombard.

[bptastic]

@barnee what you need to do is give cruisers a specific niche in naval combat. Let’s think this through BBs are tough they attack at 4 and can take an extra hit, DDs nullify sub sneak attacks and are generally cheaper to replace. What naval combat has that there is no unit to counter is air. Sure you can bring your own with CVs and that’s good but cruisers, especially in the later war boasted very powerful anti air suites. So give cruisers a niche - anti air abilities. They get a first roll strike at any air units attacking them similar to the AAA ground unit. Then they can participate in regular naval combat as well. Now you have a reason to buy them. They perform a defensive and offensive function, giving a fleet greater flexibility and combat power. I’d buy them if they could counter air power, cause they have a niche, not just a po man’s BB.

[General 6 Stars]

1 Battleship C20 A4 1.26 D 1.26 M2 SHS 4 2 hit
2 Battlecruisers C24 A5 1.66 D 1.34 M3 SHS 3
Not bad. Pay 4 icps for a better A D and M.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@Imperious-Leader a very good idea.
Next step i was thinking was like linking up CR’s in a tech System.
But your idea is more refined.👍🏽

[General 6 Stars]

@SS-GEN said in [House Rules] The Cruiser:

@Argothair ya I have the revamped piece costs and such as I stated before. It be nice to see your piece values tested and results showed. But as usual no playtest results.
D12 I have in game
Batt A9 D9 C15 M2 SHS 4. 2 hits
Crus. A5 D5 C9 M3 SHS 3 plane or ship
Carr A2 D4 C14 M2 hit plane only 2 hit
Dest A3 D3 C6 M2 SHS 2 FSBL Depth charge @3
Sub A5 D3 C7 M2 FS can dive with dest present Tacs can hit surfaced subs @3
Tran A0 D1 C7 M2 Esc @3
Can take as casualty but then you lose your D1 plane shot. Transports alone can escape if survive after each round of combat.
Naval ship block. 1 ship blocks 3. 2 ships block 6

Barney I am raising the cruiser to A@5 D@5 against planes AA and ships for every round of combat. Will test it in game in 2 weeks.

5000 planes were shot down to kill only 39 ships so got to boost it for AA

[General 6 Stars]

@aequitas-et-veritas I have a tech for Battleships Cruisers and Destroyers +1 on Shore shot only. But my shore shot is lower. D6 shoreshot is to high.

[General 6 Stars]

If Battlecruiser is in game then I would raise battleship AD.
1 Battleship (A5) A10 1.58 (D5) D10 1.58 2 hits 2 A or D rolls
2 Battlecrus (A5) A10 1.66 (D4) D8 1.34

Unless IL the Battlecruiser was a better ship ?

[M36]

Has anyone considered a “Pocket Battleship”? A cruiser that costs 16 IPC, attacks at four and like subs receives two dice for convoy disruption? Tried this in a couple of our Europe games but haven’t seen enough use of it yet to truly determine its worth.

[barnee]

@bptastic said in [House Rules] The Cruiser:

…give cruisers a niche - anti air abilities…

Hi bp

yea I use AA for both the BB and CA. 2 shots that hit at 1 out of 10. Can’t have more shots than planes. I lowered it to 1 shot for the CA after boosting it to A4 when paired with a BB butI’m still on the first test game so we’ll see how that works.

Obviously one would need a 10 sided die for ftf play, but when I tried it at 1 shot hits at 1 out of 6, it seemed too powerful. Lowering it to 1 in 10 seems to work pretty good.

Also, the AA ability doesn’t activate until rd 2, so as not to break rd 1 battles. I think of it as representing early war success of Air vs Naval. : )

[Mursilis]

@Argothair

I’m playtesting it at least. But i can only playtest 1 game at a time. I’m currently doing 11 IPC cruiser and shockingly it’s not being purchased.

[General 6 Stars]

@Mursilis said in [House Rules] The Cruiser:

@Argothair

I’m playtesting it at least. But i can only playtest 1 game at a time. I’m currently doing 11 IPC cruiser and shockingly it’s not being purchased.

Not surprised.

[General 6 Stars]

Barney battleships really didn’t have AA. Small batteries. Take away the battleship aa and give back Cruiser d6 @1 every round ?

[M36]

@SS-GEN Didn’t have AA? Battleships were literally bristling with flak batteries. 20mm, 40mm, 3 inch guns…

[General 6 Stars]

@M36 according to my history techs they did but weren’t that efficient. I’ll go back and recheck. If I’m wrong then I’m wrong.

[M36]

@SS-GEN well you’re not wrong. AA in general wasn’t all that efficient except in huge quantities. It’s difficult to hit a target traveling over 200 mph. Look up the specs for ships like the Bismarck though. Extensive AA batteries because the supremacy of air power was not yet established so it was thought AA batteries would be adequate.

[barnee]

After rethinking it a bit I went ahead and gave them their 2nd shot back. Was only on 1st rd of test anyway. : )

So can play with the attack to 4 boost with the BB or just the AA boost for CA and BB or combine.

Might add the boost 2 DD Mursilis was talking about. Seems as if that might be fun to try

[General 6 Stars]

Battleships didn’t have the system on ships like the cruisers did. That’s that. So put in what ever you want in the fantasy game. I’m out.

[Imperious Leader]

@Argothair said in [House Rules] The Cruiser:

I always thought the “2-hit” idea was supposed to represent having extremely thick armor and durable hulls. I would think a battlecruiser would be more like C12 / A5 / D4 / M3 / 1-hit / bombard.

Were going to D12 already? I thought the point was to keep it simple, so keep D6 and the only way is to create new units with either special movement, 2 hit units, etc

In the game a battleship represents 4-6 and as you go downward the ratios get huge very fast. Subs represent about 30-40.

If your doing D12 i might make the BB an 8/6 on both attack and defense, the 8 representing the primary, 6 the secondary, and the primary is a preemptive shot ( because of longer range guns

The Battlecruiser withhold be a 7/5 unit

[Argothair]

@Imperious-Leader By “C12,” I mean that the cost is 12 IPCs. None of the systems I’ve proposed have ever used a D12.

[Imperious Leader]

BBs had many AA guns, but the Heavy Cruiser was a specialist in this regard, the Battlecruiser too. Look it up. The CA was defined as a patrol-er of the seas with long range ( which is why you assign more speed in a turn). But they were the best defenders for Carriers, because the Latter were build on a Cruiser hull. The BB’s were really used for assast, not protection dutys, which is why BBs usually were grouped together in planning for naval sorties. Cruiser types escorted the CV’s. Thats why they were built as the ultimate AA gun platforms.