Essay on a German Strategy

[Corbeau Blanc]

Quote: " Since you moved your inf to w. europe, you now have to counter ukr with only 1inf"
I made a typo here, it should read: Move 3 German infantry and AA gun in Eastern Europe, moving the Italian AA gun to replace. Western Europe is left with 2 infantry and 3 fighters protected for the round by the Baltic fleet trap.

So at start of round 2, it’s not 1 infantry but 4 infantry as i intended it. You have the option of sacrificing the transport to Uk fighters to bring 2 more units from norway in Eastern Europe if you feel the Russian might be harder to crack. Which measn 6 infantry.

I mention the mediteranan fleet , which is one battleship and 2 transports( 1 from the 8 bid). I explain to ferry back in Ukraine 2 inf 2 artilery in round 2 with BB shore bombardment from Africa Corp. Which has taken Anglo-Egpt one round 1 ( libya troops and Italy troops + air force).

You also have the option of not going for Africa, bringing right from the start an additional 4 units in round one. So eiter 4 or 8 additional units over 2 round based on if or not you take Anglo-gypt.

Granted, i made a typo ( i corrected it, thanks) between eastern and western europe for thoses 3 germany infantry but the reality is i can strike Ukraine on round 2 with 10 tanks, 6 infantry and 2 artillery. I can raise the stakes by 6 more units from norway and africa combined if i evacuate it.

I can play you on triple A, yes, if you want to test it. I’m not sure it will fly as High with you knowing all the details but we’ll see. I did tested it 3 times in actual games and won against good players.

[AxisOfEvil]

Ok, i didnt see the med tran as a bid unit. With your strat, u might as well bypass africa, as u wont hold it past round two anyhow. So u will only have 2 trans of equip on either round 1 or round 2. U can choose for effectiveness. And the norway units wont make it to the fight unscathed.

But yeah, with an extra tran in the med, i might bypass ukraine, and stack Wrussia Caucus. Never played against two trans in med. Be interesting. However, you could just place the bid units directly into europe, as if u use the med fleet to hit ukr r2, u cant contend africa much longer.

[AxisOfEvil]

PS  -  you should probably note the edits made in the original post so my reply doesnt look retarded  :)

[Corbeau Blanc]

For anglo egypt, 2 transports allows you to take it with 3 infantry, 1 artillery and 2 armor. Add one fighter and one bomber, the Battleship Bismarck sicking the UK destroyer. If i take more than one casualty in A.Egypt, i’ve been seen sometimes scraping one fighter to Hold it strong enough. ;)

The artillery and other infantry move forward from algeria, which results in the 2 inf 2 artillery i bring back from Africa for Ukraine.

I almost always go for 1 transport bid, gives me versality while keeping pressure on Caucasus and as well allowing reinforcment into Africa on a normal game. Sometimes i go for an extra sub in atlantic to really waste the whole British navy, but that’s another story i reserve for certain zealous KGF fans.

It is indeed not viable against a classic Western Russia opening. Anyways, if you play against me and bypass Ukraine, my goal is attained and i won’t use this strat ;) Russia plays before Germany and it’s really for the german to choose to commit to this gambit. Since you are from what i see a good player, i would not push a strat if it is not suited to the purpose it is meant for. And no, your answer did not seemed retarded, your comments were true.

Eric

[Crazy Ivan]

:roll:
  I must agree, putting all you eggs in one basket is not going to be anything more than someone making an omlet of you. You have to attack everywhere on the first turn or you will be giving the allies an advantage/s.
Example:
  Ignore Egypt= The Indian fleet comes into the Med through the suez canal and good-bye Italian navy. Also now you must defend southern Europe from G-2 on.
  Build all shiny new Panzers on G1= 10 tanks, (30 attack/30 defense) vs 20 infantry, (20 attack/40 defense). Don’t overlook the 10 extra infantry units that have to be destroyed to capture vital territory, Territory which earns you IPCs to build things and which when in your control denies the allies precious IPCs to build things.  :wink:
  My best advice is put some boots on the ground. Buy 3 Inf with your prebuild and place one each in; Ukraine, West Russia, and Belorussia. At least the Russians may pay more dearly for their aggression, and make your counter attacks easier.
Crazy Ivan  :roll:

[AxisOfEvil]

I find the tone of the thread a bit amusing. Its like you are threatening any Russian player. “You irk me by killing my plane in UKR, and I shall unleash an unstoppable strategy in which you have no defense!”. What is the trigger that make this all possible? the three russian tanks exposed? In ll i bring 2 tanks for sure. Dice i may bring two or may bring three. Either way, on russia round three, i certainly have the counter attack ability to strafe and kill all inf and dig into the tank stack you may have in ukr, and hold caucus.

Round 3 can have several allied planes in caucus, i usually have a few staged there by round 3 in a normal game. But once i see the german build of all tanks round 1, I certainly buy more allied planes, uk and usa. These planes will have duel purpose, to defend russian territory, and to land on western europe that is very porrly defended at this point. It is possible you lose western europe beyond countering ability the moment you move that stack of 10 tanks on round 2. Once you lose WE, your are making a mad dash for mosocw, or you strangle to death very quickly.

[Corbeau Blanc]

Hehe, there is a bit of what you say with the ‘‘irk’’ thing since it was first tailored against a friend. And it worked, i rarely see him attempt ukraine now.

I don’t think it is unstoppable tough. I’m pretty sure a strategy could be made for UK and USA to respond in kind to this specific strategy. An adequate answer would be to prevent Japan fighters to get there to secure the gain. The thing is not all players will see it coming in the first place and it WILL take an untraditional answer to prevent the loss of Caucasus if Russia committed to Ukraine in round 1.

Also, in a low luck game you might commit the right force always but in a dice game, going in with the bare minimum forces might play vile tricks on you. That’s why i assumed russian 3 tanks.

For western Europe, the baltic Fleet is on it’s coast by UK 1st turn. Buying fighters and sending UK fighters to moscow means you don’t attack it and leave your fleet open to a combined attack of the Luftwafe and Kriegsmarine. Chances will be the loss of all transports for round 2, u-boats hitting boats. Even if you attack the Kriegsmarine turn 1, subs will submerge and still be in a position to hit your fleet on turn 2, submerging preventing retreat of your boats if you comited them too.

Also, It’s not like Germany won’t build on round 2 what they need to be in position to counter a turn 2 Western Europe landing. The forces needed for the Caucasus impulse are already dispatched by that point.

Well, let me know when you want to play. We’ll try to arrange that and will be easier to demonstrate. ;)

[Corbeau Blanc]

Also, what’s the trigger?

It’s not the tanks in themselves or an unstoppable strategy, it’s simply Russia positioning and it’s troops spread too thin on first round.

Germany makes a calculated sacrifice on turn 1 in ukraine of 4 tanks and 6 infantry to capitalise on that. This really force the Russian to commit most it’s troops even further right into Ukraine which is by now a dead zone from Germany troops Eastern Europe + tanks produced in Germany.

Not taking out Ukraine is not really an option either since Japan moved planes into range on turn 1 to be in position to reinforce either it or an early fallen Caucasus on turn 2. Also the whole German army will get massed there which would leave no chances for defenders on turn 3.

So that’s the trigger point, troops spread too thin getting spread even thinner where you want them to be crushed. One could argue of not taking back Ukraine, or so to speak not taking the bait, and fall back on Moscow with everything, leaving caucasus i guess. Doubt it would do any good to Russia but might be possible to perfom their own impulse trough karelia toward Eastern Europe with UK-USA help. Does not fly too high with me tough.

[Magister]

What if the Russian Turn 2 counterattack to Ukraine is a 2-3 round raid and retreats (to either WRus or Cauc) just before exposing the expensive victors ? Then add more arty/inf in Caucasus and tanks in Moscow so Ukraine is a real dead zone. To enter it (and stay alive), Germany needs infantry, LOTS of it. Tanks alone are a big waste !

2-3 German rounds of building (almost) all inf, followed by 2 rounds of tanks throw an irresistible ‘cumulated charge’ at Ukraine and beyond. Survive at first, then survive safer (land German fighters too), then with the full 4 waves, attack !
Some little questions are what about the Western threat in the meantime, and what about the ‘hollow’ following the ‘cumulative charge’ if changing back to build inf, slow to reach the front.

[AxisOfEvil]

There is no conceivable way you can sack Caucus on round 2. If you can, u deserve a win sir. Round 3 i find highly unlikely as well. You are right about Ukraine being a dead zone, And the russian player should treat it as such by not commiting all of its troops there. Meanwhile, you dont have enough left over to defend the western front as well. Germany is the one that spreads itself too thin in this scenario.

[Mazer Rackham]

Fun idea.  Needs some clean up ;)

VS realistically: ( let’s say 2 infantry, 2 artillery, 2 tank on first Russian build )

• 3 tanks in Ukraine
• 5 infantry, 2 artillery, 1 AA gun in West Russia
• 8 infantry, 2 artillery in Caucasus
• 2 tanks in Moscow

5inf 2art in WRU?  With a Russian double into WRU/UKR shouldn’t you have about 6inf 1art 1tnk in WRU?  Since UKR is always a kill zone I’m sure most players would rather send 1art rather than 1tnk into UKR even if they were taking it thinly.

And I think you would have 4inf 2art in CAU, not 8inf 2art.

The Russian opening needs a bit of work.

As for the counter, the Baltic is unenhanced, so it’s going to get slagged by the Brits.  That means the UK will build up to a total of 4tra for an invasion of WEU R2 and it can’t be stopped.  It can be countered, but you will have approximately 7inf 2art 3tnk landing in WEU (4tra of UK gear, 2tra of US gear).  The bleed on Germany is immediate.  With a competent Allied transport chain, Berlin is under dire threat R3.

The tank stack is a fun idea and it has it’s place, but the big tank stack isn’t going to stop a good KGF player.

A KJF player, on the other hand, who stacks in BUR and moves 2inf to PER on R1, could be vulnerable to this opening.

Peace

[Corbeau Blanc]

You can sack Caucasus round 2 if Russia abandon it to fall back Moscow, that’s how i meant it. But yea, Round 3 is the goal here.

For western europe scenario, nothing prevent germany to sink the lone transport with the sub at start. Round 2 and round 3 Germany purchases occurs before UK landing in round 3. That’s over 80 ipc in infantry/artillery/tanks waiting for allies landing which will be too weak to resist the counter on round 4. Remember the 8 tanks were purchased round 1 and are already on their way to Ukraine once you place 2nd round puchases of Germany, you do not need to commit round 2 and round 3 germany purchases badly enough to compromise core territories. In fact, you pretty much have what you need in ukraine except maybe 2 infantry and artilery back up from Italy via 2 transports ( IF not bringing back africa corp) .

Also, you really do seem to take the destruction of baltic fleet granted when it’s not. As well not considering the german air force that is based in western europe. I see no way you can pretend to land there before round 3 and it will be a weak landing if ever so.

I can pretty much assure you, your fleet will be sunk if it’s only made of 1UK BB, 1 USA destroyer and 3 transports + the odd russian sub. You’ll need to build an UK AC first turn. At least i’ll strafe the transports for sure if no AC are present.

Let me know your disponibilities and we will play it. Words won’t prove it to you it seems.

[Mazer Rackham]

:-D :-D

Ok then.

I can pretty much assure you, your fleet will be sunk if it’s only made of 1UK BB, 1 USA destroyer and 3 transports + the odd russian sub. You’ll need to build an UK AC first turn. At least i’ll strafe the transports for sure if no AC are present.

Ok, the fleet at a minimum will be 5tra 1sub 2des 1btl.  The best way to approach the French coast is to build in Z08 or Z02 on R1 and if you need the carrier, build it in place.  Do the invasion R2 and build your protection after you land.

Let me know your disponibilities and we will play it. Words won’t prove it to you it seems.

Perhaps just not the words you used  :-D  I’d love to play.  I just fired up TripA for the first time in many months yesterday, and I’d love a game.  How does 5:30 look to you?  I can play until 8pm which should demonstrate a few things about the first few rounds.

Since we’re exploring a strat and not just playing, let’s use Low Luck to normalize the dice.  That will give the best approximation of your plan.

Do you know how to get to the TripA lobby?

Peace

[Mazer Rackham]

And of course I’ll leave the game open so anyone can drop in and kibbitz in the chat dialog.  All are welcome for trash talking and banter  :-D

[Mazer Rackham]

I’m in the lobby now.  I’ll hang out there for a while.  Anyone else, c’mon out if you feel like a chat.

Peace

[AxisOfEvil]

Mazer, are u taking my game from me!  :)  I wanted to demonstrate the German bleed!! It would have been fun taking EE with a single russian soldier on Round 3!!!

[Mazer Rackham]

AoE, let’s play man.  I got until 8pm.  I’ll run either side of this strat.  Get in the lobby!

[Corbeau Blanc]

Still at office, can’t be there before at least one hour and half :(

Im not sure for Low luck, the battle might be normalised but it’s too easy to comit the right forces.  This strategy deals with forcing the ennemy to commit it’s forces, you don’t nomrally hold back when rolling dices.

[Mazer Rackham]

D’oh!

I’m booked then until Sunday (maybe late Saturday like 11pm, maybe…).

I’d love to run the strat with you some time.  Let’s see if we can get a couple hours in the next week.

Peace

[AxisOfEvil]

@Mazer:

AoE, let’s play man.  I got until 8pm.  I’ll run either side of this strat.  Get in the lobby!

I dont see you in there