TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.3
Game History
Round: 9
Research Technology - Germans
Purchase Units - Germans
Germans buy 13 artilleries and 6 infantry; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;
Combat Move - Germans
1 mech_infantry moved from Caucasus to Persia
Germans take Persia from Russians
1 mech_infantry moved from Yugoslavia to Bulgaria
1 infantry moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium
Germans take Holland Belgium from British
3 artilleries moved from France to Normandy Bordeaux
11 artilleries and 21 infantry moved from Southern France to Normandy Bordeaux
2 infantry moved from Rostov to Volgograd
1 artillery moved from Rostov to Volgograd
1 mech_infantry moved from Caucasus to Volgograd
1 armour moved from Caucasus to Volgograd
3 infantry moved from Belarus to Smolensk
1 bomber moved from Novgorod to Smolensk
3 infantry moved from Novgorod to Archangel
Germans take Archangel from Russians
1 mech_infantry moved from Belarus to Archangel
1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Belarus
1 bomber moved from French Indo China to 44 Sea Zone
Combat - Germans
Battle in 44 Sea Zone
Germans attack with 1 bomber
Americans defend with 1 submarine; ANZAC defend with 1 transport
1 submarine owned by the Americans Submerged
1 transport owned by the ANZAC lost in 44 Sea Zone
Germans win with 1 bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport
Battle in Smolensk
Germans attack with 1 bomber and 3 infantry
Russians defend with 1 artillery and 1 infantry
Germans roll dice for 1 bomber and 3 infantry in Smolensk, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1,17 expected hits
Russians roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Smolensk, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0,67 expected hits
1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Smolensk
Germans roll dice for 1 bomber and 3 infantry in Smolensk, round 3 : 1/4 hits, 1,17 expected hits
Russians roll dice for 1 artillery in Smolensk, round 3 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
1 artillery owned by the Russians and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Smolensk
Germans win, taking Smolensk from Russians with 1 bomber and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
Casualties for Russians: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
Battle in Normandy Bordeaux
Germans attack with 14 artilleries and 21 infantry
Americans defend with 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 2 infantry
Germans roll dice for 14 artilleries and 21 infantry in Normandy Bordeaux, round 2 : 12/35 hits, 10,50 expected hits
Americans roll dice for 2 infantry in Normandy Bordeaux, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0,67 expected hits
1 infantry owned by the Germans and 2 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Normandy Bordeaux
Germans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from Americans with 14 artilleries and 20 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry
Battle in Volgograd
Germans attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
Russians defend with 1 factory_minor and 1 infantry
Germans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Volgograd, round 2 : 1/5 hits, 1,50 expected hits
Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Volgograd, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Volgograd
Germans win, taking Volgograd from Russians with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
Non Combat Move - Germans
1 bomber moved from 44 Sea Zone to French Indo China
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern Italy to Rostov
9 armour and 34 mech_infantrys moved from Caucasus to Rostov
1 infantry moved from Ukraine to Western Ukraine
2 infantry moved from Ukraine to Rostov
3 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to Germany
4 infantry moved from Germany to Western Germany
8 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to France
1 infantry moved from Western Germany to France
2 infantry moved from Sweden to 114 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from 114 Sea Zone to Germany
1 bomber moved from Smolensk to Rostov
Place Units - Germans
3 artilleries placed in France
10 artilleries placed in Western Germany
3 infantry placed in Ukraine
3 infantry placed in Novgorod
Turn Complete - Germans
Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 8
Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 125 Sea Zone. Rolls: 3,2
Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 80 Sea Zone. Rolls: 3,2
Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 93 Sea Zone. Rolls: 4,2
Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 105 Sea Zone. Rolls: 4,1
Germans collect 55 PUs (8 lost to blockades); end with 57 PUs
Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 62 PUs
Objective Germans 6 Control Iraq Or Persia Or Northwest Persia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 64 PUs
Objective Germans 3 Control Caucasus: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 69 PUs
Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 79 PUs
Turning on Edit Mode
EDIT: Changing PUs for Germans from 79 to 82
EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
Turning on Edit Mode
EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Volgograd: 1 infantry
EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Normandy Bordeaux: 1 infantry
EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
Turning on Edit Mode
EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Rostov: 1 infantry
EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Caucasus: 1 infantry
EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
Turning on Edit Mode
EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
Combat Hit Differential Summary :
Germans : 0,67
Americans : 0,33
Russians : -0,33
@JuanSpain Edits because had to repeat and dice were different
@JuanSpain said in 18 League TITLE PLAYOFF QUARTER FINAL Oysteilo (Allies + 6) vs JuanSpain G40 BM3:
@JuanSpain Edits because had to repeat and dice were different
Please explain a little more why your edits are okey. It looks a little dicey. If you had to redo something, why should i have the worse result? I am sure everything is ok, just some more info
@JuanSpain I think you need to explain a little more why your edits are ok. You give me a worse result
Sounds line Juan adjusted the situation to the result after the first and thus binding dice.
He redid the turn and the second (non-Real) dice run was different so he adjusted to the first dice run.
@JDOW said in 18 League TITLE PLAYOFF QUARTER FINAL Oysteilo (Allies + 6) vs JuanSpain G40 BM3:
Sounds line Juan adjusted the situation to the result after the first and thus binding dice.
He redid the turn and the second (non-Real) dice run was different so he adjusted to the first dice run.
Why didnt he post the result of the original result?
@oysteilo said in 18 League TITLE PLAYOFF QUARTER FINAL Oysteilo (Allies + 6) vs JuanSpain G40 BM3:
@JDOW said in 18 League TITLE PLAYOFF QUARTER FINAL Oysteilo (Allies + 6) vs JuanSpain G40 BM3:
Sounds line Juan adjusted the situation to the result after the first and thus binding dice.
He redid the turn and the second (non-Real) dice run was different so he adjusted to the first dice run.Why didnt he post the result of the original result?
And edit that accordingly? I think i would have done that. There is also no note about a re-do og the turn
@oysteilo said in 18 League TITLE PLAYOFF QUARTER FINAL Oysteilo (Allies + 6) vs JuanSpain G40 BM3:
@oysteilo said in 18 League TITLE PLAYOFF QUARTER FINAL Oysteilo (Allies + 6) vs JuanSpain G40 BM3:
@JDOW said in 18 League TITLE PLAYOFF QUARTER FINAL Oysteilo (Allies + 6) vs JuanSpain G40 BM3:
Sounds line Juan adjusted the situation to the result after the first and thus binding dice.
He redid the turn and the second (non-Real) dice run was different so he adjusted to the first dice run.Why didnt he post the result of the original result?
And edit that accordingly? I think i would have done that. There is also no note about a re-do og the turn
And why did he have to adjust the result? No note about that either. Juan is a fair player, so no issues about that, but i feel i have the right to ask what this is about
@oysteilo computer failed and had to redo, that is all. You have all the dice in the dice server email. The map posted corresponds of course to the first dice launched. In the end the difference the second time was little when redoing: One defense more in one combat and one less in other (affecting infs in both sides), and 3 IPC in convoy damage.
@JuanSpain ok. I dont get to this today or tomorrow anyway so i will look at my dice emails. I would have appreciated an original post though
@oysteilo me too, was no possible Sir, had to repeat everything. Would have been easier for me too.
First of all, I will go with this.
Howerver, I am not very happy about how this is handled. Here it is just assumed I will continue with the worse of two results without any questions. I think 99,9% of players would have asked in this situation. I also don’t find anything in the rules supporting JDOW’s view of ALWAYS accepting the first set of dice emails by skimming through the text. I agree it is logical but nothing supports that this is absolute.
Maybe a better way of going about this is to edit the file according to the initial dice emails without going for a second set of dice emails? You ended up editing anyway so there was no point in throwing in the confusion with the second dice emails.
So at the end of the day there are two sets of dice emails, you give me the worse result and you choose to throw dice a second time even though you could have resolved the computer crash issue in a different way, by plain editing and thus avoiding the confusion.
I am done with this now and there are no hard feelings from my side. I think I have stated my opinion clearly.
I think my schedule allows me to continue this afternoon!
Oysteilo, frankly, I had this situation plenty of times from both sides. My opponents did plenty of times and often I did it too, because sometimes I could not handle things via edits (e.g units on transports could not be removed) so I redid the turn and made edits according to the original dice set. Or sometimes the computer or tripleA crashes
@JuanSpain: The better solution next time is: Do the second run in local mode. Save after you made the edits. Then reload in real mode and post --> There is no second set of dice in this case.
@oysteilo: Imo it is very easy to check whether Juan handled this correctly. There were just 2 battles affected weren’t they? Just look at the affected battles and check if the first dice mail (earlier timestamp) matches the results on the map after the edits.
I, in fact, did this from time to time and it was a 2 min exercise (I have a separate dice mail that does not get any other messages, do you?)
In a nutshell: A second set of dice can be avoided by doing the new run in local mode, make edits, save, reload and post in real mode.
However, this would not avoid that that posted map shows different dice than the dice email does.
"So at the end of the day there are two sets of dice emails, you give me the worse result "
I really think this is not true and a subtle accusation lies in that statement. Juan did not give you the worse result but the first result. This is a huge difference because in 50% when these situations happened, the edits happened to improve the situation for the defender as the second run was worse for the attacker than the first run in these cases.
Anyway, I am not playing in this game but I am 100% neutral here and try to mediate by supporting that there is nothing special nor unsportsmanlike in Juan’s actions. Also, this is not comparable to an edit where one has to ask for permission because the rules are clear: The posted map has to match the first dice set that has been rolled. This is the rules and its common sense. Only if this should not happen (e.g. because you misclicked something) you have to ask for permission to reroll and to take the 2nd set of dice.
" I also don’t find anything in the rules supporting JDOW’s view of ALWAYS accepting the first set of dice emails by skimming through the text. I agree it is logical but nothing supports that this is absolute."
It is absolute and has been explained and thus indirectly ruled by gamerman some years ago (I think it is not in the official rules because it is so logical that it must not be further explained)
First dice count, period.
If someone takes the second set of dice for real without asking for permission he/violates the rules. I am certain that any rule deputy would support this statement.
This is what stupid cheaters would did and also did in the past occasionly. Run at battle, don’t like the outcome, redo the battle until the desired outcome and then post the battle. As soon as you see multiple dice for one and the same battle you can get suspicious (I can see this on my cell with one look). Then you dive in and check by the timestamps whether the posted map matches the first set of dice. If it doesn’t, your opponent most likely cheated (or more likely comes with a stupid excuse why this happened by accident:D)
But as said, as long as the posted map matches the first set of dice, everything is clear by definition and this logic cannot easily be exploited.
@JDOW Thanks for your input. I have said I have accepted the edit and the current map and I have not accused JuanSpain about cheeting. If you think my wording indicates that I am sorry. I have played JuanSpain in the past and know him as a fair player that also have allowed my silly errors.
All I have said is that I think this could have been handled better and more elegantly by a different approach. This situation was not complicated and could easiily have been resolved by a simple edit. Still, a choice is made to throw more dice with really no note of what is going on. I dont understand the need for the second set of emails. This just makes things very complicated. I also think the initial note about what had happened was very short and suprafacial. This leads me to ask some questions and then the discussion rolls on as it always does and if my statement about giving me a worse result is read as I am accusing JuanSpain of cheeting I am now officially appologizing for that and I am sorry for this
@JDOW, the conclusion I read from your message is that this situation was handled perfectly initially and with no need for me to ask any questions. I will be more reluctant about this in the future. Thank you
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.3
Game History
Round: 9
Purchase Units - Russians
Russians buy 10 infantry; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;
Combat Move - Russians
1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Bryansk to Ukraine
1 tactical_bomber moved from Iraq to Ukraine
1 fighter moved from Iraq to Ukraine
1 fighter moved from Iraq to Tambov
2 infantry moved from Russia to Tambov
1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Bryansk to Western Ukraine
Combat - Russians
Battle in Ukraine
Russians attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
Germans defend with 1 factory_minor and 3 infantry
Russians roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Ukraine, round 2 : 2/5 hits, 2,00 expected hits
Germans roll dice for 3 infantry in Ukraine, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 1,00 expected hits
2 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Ukraine
Russians roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Ukraine, round 3 : 0/5 hits, 2,00 expected hits
Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Ukraine, round 3 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Ukraine
Russians roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Ukraine, round 4 : 3/4 hits, 1,83 expected hits
Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Ukraine, round 4 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Ukraine
Russians win, taking Ukraine from Germans with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
Casualties for Germans: 3 infantry
Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
Battle in Tambov
Russians attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry
Italians defend with 1 infantry
Russians roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Tambov, round 2 : 2/3 hits, 0,83 expected hits
Italians roll dice for 1 infantry in Tambov, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
1 infantry owned by the Italians lost in Tambov
Russians win, taking Tambov from Italians with 1 fighter and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
Casualties for Italians: 1 infantry
Battle in Western Ukraine
Russians attack with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
Germans defend with 1 infantry
Russians roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Western Ukraine, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 0,83 expected hits
Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Western Ukraine, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
1 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Western Ukraine
Russians win, taking Western Ukraine from Germans with 1 artillery and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
Non Combat Move - Russians
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Ukraine to Russia
1 fighter moved from Tambov to Russia
1 infantry moved from Vologda to Nenetsia
1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Vologda to Russia
3 aaGuns, 3 armour, 10 artilleries, 50 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Bryansk to Russia
Place Units - Russians
10 infantry placed in Russia
Turn Complete - Russians
Russians collect 18 PUs; end with 20 PUs
Trigger Russians 7 Great Patriotic War: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 23 PUs
Combat Hit Differential Summary :
Germans : 0,00
Italians : -0,33
Russians : 0,50
@JuanSpain I hope we can continue this game in a friendly style. I do not think you are cheeting and I am now appologizing to you for my wording which I see may be read in a way not intended
The whole thing started because I did not understanding what this was about
Oysteilo: It could have been handled better by redoing the turn using local mode.
@oysteilo Jesus, what is all this, 3 IPC in convoy damage is the difference.
I was busy at work overseas and was not able to read all this, and will not, given what I read in the last post. Now just landed back to Spain, will continue soon.
Thanks guys
Cheers
Juan
