Besides avybody who is playing AARHE is gonna own the milton bradley version.
Thats another reason why we have those additional units to make the best use of the extra pieces from that game
The bomber is our transport plane
The battleship is our cruiser
The fighter is our naval fighter
The tank is mech infantry
The sub is our super sub
etc…
As for the night bombing – I’m going to have to try it. I was too afraid to fly any BMRs in for SBR because ID and 1 wave of responding air defense (e.g., FTR has a 50% of a shootdown!) just seems too daunting of a defense for the chance of 1 die of dmg.
Before there was always some math and odds that made sense when doing SBR (e.g., count on losing a BMR every 6th attempt) that made the risk acceptable – now, it just seems like suicide.
Once Germany got Jet Power my bombers basically sat still the whole game.
Did I interpret this wrong?
As for the night bombing – I’m going to have to try it. I was too afraid to fly any BMRs in for SBR because ID and 1 wave of responding air defense (e.g., FTR has a 50% of a shootdown!) just seems too daunting of a defense for the chance of 1 die of dmg.
Before there was always some math and odds that made sense when doing SBR (e.g., count on losing a BMR every 6th attempt) that made the risk acceptable – now, it just seems like suicide.
Once Germany got Jet Power my bombers basically sat still the whole game.
Did I interpret this wrong?
Well for one you need to build up the air forces and create an arms race with air forces. The allies naturally have an advantage in this because they have more IPC.
Bombers doing SBR roll one die if they get a 6 only , then they roll another die. If they get a 6 the bomber is destroyed and 4-5 the bomber have to go back home and does not deliver its bombs. So basically its a 1/36 chance with one plane increasing to 1/18,1/12 etc…
well we have jet bombers in the game ( see optional pieces)
I’ll leave the drafting of night bombing rule to the other thread
so how are we doing with the conversion thing?
so is it going to be no Jet conversion allowed?
Well in my games Jet power came up twice. Both times we figured automatically it was a item you had to build. Its not like you built 10 fighters in the past turns and get Jet power and all of a sudden you got 10 fighters attacking at 4 and defending at 5 and bypassing bombers.
I say you get one free conversion, and the rest you need to build, perhaps at cheaper cost … say 8?
This would represent the He-162 salamander “peoples fighter”
well He-262 idea is too specific and has more merits as a National Advantage
without other reasoning coming to mind we’ll merely change it to only new fighters and bombers get the new Jet combat values
yes lets do that.
My example was only to provide some example. It would not be the only jet considered like this for late war period.
by the way besides new combat values the ID immunity is also only for new units
I hope this is what mean
hopefully its not too many things to keep track of
Yes it is. Immunity is for only the new units your building as jet fighters and the free prototype.
actually for simplicity I wasnt adding free prototype thing yet
is it important?
I think its a bit of trying to smooth over the feeling: “gee we got this new technology…but i cant use it until i buy it”
and this allows the player who got the tech to actually have one prototype…as they say to “wet his appetite for more”
Historically it could represent a small order of such items to see how they fair in combat and still be assumed under the costs of development.
Its also some halfway point of both arguments: either tech immediately changes all existing planes to jets…or you got tech and you have nothing until you buy those units from scratch…
getting one free prototype would be a gesture that something can be used on the same turn to “save the day” in perhaps one battle where you needed tech that turn rather than wait another turn for purchase.
I say for simplicity sake wait and make them buy it. Or move Tech Development Phase back up prior to Purchase Units so they can buy it right away.
Which unit do you allow them to convert, will be the next question asked. Closest to homeland? Closest to a factory?
I noticed that since the tech dice were free in AARHE noone was up for dumping money into it.
Just thinking out loud.
yes you get free dice, but you can accelerate the effort by spending IPC.
I think the prototype would be of your choosing…but just one. I don’t like the idea of having the tech sorted out so on the turn you get it , your buying all sorts of the same item. That type of thing leads to reckless play…kinda like an 18 year old getting winning the lottery… id rather allow for some temperament prevail where you at least model… Germany now had this new plane in the sky (represented by the prototype) and US player says " i guess we need to start research on this type of weapon"
Id rather not see " Poof ! Germany builds 10 Jet fighters on the same turn they develop the tech and turn the war around in one turn…" at least it models the idea that new weapons need different facilities to accommodate the technology.
Note this goes for A-bombs (free prototype), Rockets, Jet fighters, Jet bombers, Super subs, but not heavy tanks
well giving one free fighter is not anyway near the half way point
one jet fighter is insignificant to gameplay so I think not worth the trouble
Note this goes for A-bombs (free prototype), Rockets, Jet fighters, Jet bombers, Super subs, but not heavy tanks
well actually a-bomb is free but extremely limited
rockets are free, naturally
heavy tank, a new unit so no conversion
heavy artillery, a new unit so no conversion
and I guess you guys want advanced submarines to be built too
yes revised tech new units:
super subs
jet fighter
jet bomber
in each case they need to be built if successfully researched…. but perhaps at a discount?
we went over “discount” thing for jet fighters already
now with super submarines have you got a reason for them being cheaper?
i was thinking in general terms the super subs and all the buildable tech items may be cheaper to promote purchase and research in the first place….say just one IPC cheaper?
just thinking out loud
well if it doesnt feel right then we dig deeper and see what it is
so far I don’t see this proposed rule (super subs cost cheaper) being realistic
say, maybe it is ok to convert
you can’t easier refit old submarines to super submarines
(for starters the hull shape is quite different)
but I guess you can still model recycling steel or whatever
Moin!
I hate to keep harping on this one, but this really is a show stopper. Our recent games seems to be a race to see who can get Jets first. Once the Jets are on the field the opposition rarely can do anything because they are so powerful.
We’ve learned that once Germany rolls Jets that the allies have to grind to a stop, dig in, and buy 3-5 dice per turn until they have acquired an equal footing.
Maybe this was the intent to make it a game breaker, that if you’d played long enough for Germany to get them then you need to stop playing. However, our German player now buys tech starting at G1.
Like you pointed out we are only allowing one plane to be converted (now). The rest he has to buy – but with the air combat rules it still seems too powerful.
Have you all not experienced this as well?
I haven’t done my research but I don’t think the ME-262 and early jets were any good at ground attack. They were mostly Air Superiority FTRs and anti-bombers.
I’d recommend taking another look at attack values or make them more expensive. Make it so you still have to diversify. Jets to sweep the skies and planes for Close Air Support (CAS).
Thinking out loud.
Once the Jets are on the field the opposition rarely can do anything because they are so powerful.
We’ve learned that once Germany rolls Jets that the allies have to grind to a stop, dig in, and buy 3-5 dice per turn until they have acquired an equal footing.
You are playing with the rule that jet fighters need to be purchased right? These techs DO NOT MAGICALLY make your current board units all instantly jet fighters…. you need to buy them… are you playing it that way?
Maybe this was the intent to make it a game breaker, that if you’d played long enough for Germany to get them then you need to stop playing. However, our German player now buys tech starting at G1.
Like you pointed out we are only allowing one plane to be converted (now). The rest he has to buy – but with the air combat rules it still seems too powerful.
From what you said i understand that he is buying them and that ONE jet fighter is a game killer? What aspect of its advantage is the thing thats killing the game? Targeted dogfight capability?
Have you all not experienced this as well?
no not at all, usually the other side has built more air units to overwhelm the other sides qualitative advantage, but if Germany is the cash cow AND HAS jet fighters… then the game should have been called…
I guess first we should address the aspect of the capability first, then look at limitations on tech rolling for one tech.
I haven’t done my research but I don’t think the ME-262 and early jets were any good at ground attack. They were mostly Air Superiority FTRs and anti-bombers.
I’d recommend taking another look at attack values or make them more expensive. Make it so you still have to diversify. Jets to sweep the skies and planes for Close Air Support (CAS).
Sure. But Hitler used them as Tactical Bombers and latter changed his mind to use them as interceptors. Again i need to hear from you about how exactly one German jet fighter changed the game ( exaggerating BTW)
