AARHE: Lite

[Imperious Leader]

If you get rid of all those blank spaces between lines you have 1 more page easily. You wrote it in triple space?

[tekkyy]

no its single spacing
and it is in the same formatting as normal AARHE

focus on content

ASW, Submarine warfare, Counter Air, Ground Interdiction, etc…there has to be something that is not as important as core ideas of AARHE

I think ASW can be replaced by adding to hit allocation that only destroyer hits can be allocated on submarine
Submarine warfare can be removed, hit allocation already only has the relevant restrictions
ASW tech then lets fighter hits be allocated on submarines
naval combat sequence is then shortened

or make your own sugguestions

[Imperious Leader]

Its not single space. Come on now. Their is no freeking way your going to tell be that every other line does not have a wasted line from the bold heading to the actual content.

If you cant make it work, go back to Microsoft office. At least that allows you to do what you want to do.

or just remove the bold text and make it slanted text or underlined.

I am 100% sure a line is lost in every space from bold heading to text.

ON ASW type exactly what you want it to read and also what it reads now.

[tekkyy]

unfortunately msword does a lot less in other areas
line spacing is set to single, thats inside paragraphs
the spacing before and after headings does leave some gap
I’ll learn how to use change the layout file in a moment
in latex the layout file does the formatting for you
the document gets a consistent and professional look

anyway the point is that it was using same formatting as AARHE
allowing a direct comparison…AARHE is 20 pages, Lite is 9 pages
we’ll want to get closer to 5 pages

I’ve got rid of the page header (section and page number) and reduced margins
later on if you want we can even shrunk font, make it 2 columns, etc…

the ASW changes I am thinking should give us a simple system that is some sense similar to full blown rules, formally:

Naval Combat: Sequence
Pre-Combat
1. ASW search (1st cycle only).
Opening-fire
1. Undetected Submarines fire, selectively (1st cycle only).
2. Naval units perform Anti-Air.
3. Remove casualties.
Mid-Combat
1. Units are allocated to normal combat or ASW.
Main Round
1. Detected Submarines fire.
2. ASW attack.
3. Naval units fire.
4. Air units fire.
5. Remove casualties.
Retreat Decision
1. Defender
2. Attacker
->
Opening-fire
1. Naval units perform Anti-Air.
2. Remove casualties.
Main Round
1. Air units fire.
2. Naval units fire.
3. Remove casualties.
Retreat Decision
1. Defender
2. Attacker

Naval Combat: Hit Allocation
Submarine can never be hit by naval units except by Anti-Submarine Warfare rolls.
->
Only Destroyer hits can be allocted on Submarine.

Naval Combat: Submarine Warfare
Undetected Submarines fire in opening-fire and selectively. It may only target non-Submarine naval units. All targets are selected before any rolls. Detected Submarines fire in main-round. Submarines are automatically detected from second cycle of combat.
->
In the first cycle of combat Submarines fire in opening-fire and selectively. All targets are selected before any rolls.

Naval Combat: Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW)
Remove
(In full blown AARHE only Destroyers can perform ASW attack, value is 2…the same as normal combat value.)

Tech: Advanced Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW)
You ASW now have the following base values:
->
Fighter hits can now be allocated on Submarines.
(In full blown AARHE fighters can perform both ASW search and ASW attack rolls.)

[Imperious Leader]

Naval Combat: Hit Allocation
Submarine can never be hit by naval units except by Anti-Submarine Warfare rolls.
->
Only Destroyer hits can be allocted on Submarine.

Naval Combat: Submarine Warfare
Undetected Submarines fire in opening-fire and selectively. It may only target non-Submarine naval units. All targets are selected before any rolls. Detected Submarines fire in main-round. Submarines are automatically detected from second cycle of combat.
->
In the first cycle of combat Submarines fire in opening-fire and selectively. All targets are selected before any rolls.

Naval Combat: Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW)
Remove
(In full blown AARHE only Destroyers can perform ASW attack, value is 2…the same as normal combat value.)

Tech: Advanced Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW)
You ASW now have the following base values:
->
Fighter hits can now be allocated on Submarines.
(In full blown AARHE fighters can perform both ASW search and ASW attack rolls.)

This makes sence, except i don’t like the idea of other ships doing ASW search, we still need the search rolls and only allow DD,CA, and bombers or transport planes to search, but w/o tech only the DD and CA can actually hit, they they need to roll separately in combat.

Also, remove shielding rules for first strike capabilities, and after that round once the sub is found, then the defender can allocate his own hits or retreat, otherwise all sub hits on non located subs are always allocated by the attacking subs.

ON the wasted space issues, remove the bold headings and see if the lines get closer, place former bold headings in Italics to make it different. Take the Phase 3, Phase 2 headings, etc and make them colored and underlined so they also stand out

[tekkyy]

@Imperious:

This makes sence, except i don’t like the idea of other ships doing ASW search, we still need the search rolls and only allow DD,CA, and bombers or transport planes to search, but w/o tech only the DD and CA can actually hit, they they need to roll separately in combat.

Also, remove shielding rules for first strike capabilities, and after that round once the sub is found, then the defender can allocate his own hits or retreat, otherwise all sub hits on non located subs are always allocated by the attacking subs.

the only thing ASW search does was to determine if a Submarine gets first strike
since we are letting Submarines have first strike in first cycle
there is no longer a need to perform ASW search
you only have to say submarines fire selectivey in opening-fire in first cycle of combat

I would like to remind you again that the shielding rule and class system were removed a while back

ON the wasted space issues, remove the bold headings and see if the lines get closer, place former bold headings in Italics to make it different. Take the Phase 3, Phase 2 headings, etc and make them colored and underlined so they also stand out

you don’t have to set formatting for every bloody thing in a document in latex (unlike word processor)
just mark certain headings as chapter, section, subsection, subsubsection, paragraph, etc…
the document class (article, book, letter, ieee, ams, etc) formats it for you
Latex is THE professional document creation platform for the commerical and academic world

anyway I’ve applied those naval changes and got rid of some space
its now 7 pages
(I also tested 2 columns, which makes it 4.5 pages)

http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/aarhe/20080402_AARHE_Lite.pdf

we’ve shrunk a lot by formatting and not much by contents :-P
sure we could shrink the language and reduce it by like 0.2 pages but I think ultimately a couple of rules has to go to finish off

or, we could ask people like Jen and switch now to see if this is “lite” enough for them to play

[Imperious Leader]

OMG you finally did it. Now thats much better looking!  all those stupid spaces gone…why was this not done earlier?

Lets see the 2 columns version?

This makes sence, except i don’t like the idea of other ships doing ASW search, we still need the search rolls and only allow DD,CA, and bombers or transport planes to search, but w/o tech only the DD and CA can actually hit, they they need to roll separately in combat.
Also, remove shielding rules for first strike capabilities, and after that round once the sub is found, then the defender can allocate his own hits or retreat, otherwise all sub hits on non located subs are always allocated by the attacking subs.

the only thing ASW search does was to determine if a Submarine gets first strike
since we are letting Submarines have first strike in first cycle
there is no longer a need to perform ASW search
you only have to say submarines fire selectively in opening-fire in first cycle of combat

This is too close to OOB rules… it needs to preserve the idea that you need to buy ASW ships to have a chance to protect the fleet, the current AARHE sub search rules need to stay in place, they need to be treated seperatly in combat

[tekkyy]

OMG you finally did it. Now thats much better looking!  all those stupid spaces gone…why was this not done earlier?
Lets see the 2 columns version?

I don’t know about better looking
different people have different ideas on how a document should look, doesn’t matter

other space saving measures were used, such as changing VC table into list

1 column 6 pages
2 column 4 pages

http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/aarhe/20080403_AARHE_Lite_1col.pdf
http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/aarhe/20080403_AARHE_Lite_2col.pdf

This is too close to OOB rules… it needs to preserve the idea that you need to buy ASW ships to have a chance to protect the fleet, the current AARHE sub search rules need to stay in place, they need to be treated seperatly in combat

in full AARHE ASW search is only for first cycle
submarines are automatically detected from 2nd cycle onwards
the only change I made here is that during 1st cycle, submarines are always undetected

or how about make it each destroyer detects 1 submarine?
(and with ASW tech, each fighter also detect 1 submarines)

that pretty much emulates full AARHE while keeping it short

regardless its not like OOB at all
submarine never get selective fire in OOB

[Imperious Leader]

2 columns seems rather nifty!  Its takes all the blck space away, but in this version i think the bottom margin should not have text that far near the bottom, about a 3/4 inch on top and bottom, and room for page numbers. Otherwise very nice. Also would like some colors added because it looks rather plain. Perhaps the watermark returns?

This is too close to OOB rules… it needs to preserve the idea that you need to buy ASW ships to have a chance to protect the fleet, the current AARHE sub search rules need to stay in place, they need to be treated seperatly in combat
in full AARHE ASW search is only for first cycle
submarines are automatically detected from 2nd cycle onwards
the only change I made here is that during 1st cycle, submarines are always undetected

or how about make it each destroyer detects 1 submarine?
(and with ASW tech, each fighter also detect 1 submarines)

that pretty much emulates full AARHE while keeping it short

regardless its not like OOB at all
submarine never get selective fire in OOB

Yes i think that could work. Each ASW unit Cruiser or destroyer can detect one sub, so both players are trying to out build each other. Good solution. But remember this should be recalculated each round, so if the subs get lucky on hits it can go the other way. So each round you do this. Tekkyy: pat yourself on the back, thats a winner move!

Lets leave the other issue aside for now and get Lite done.

Also, id like to add the optional units back in, but only bring into the game: Fighter-bomber, transport plane, mech infantry, airborne infantry, cruisers, and perhaps another… NO SPA, or heavy tanks, but germany should have its elite panzers ( SS) as per the NA

[Imperious Leader]

the watermark version is nice. But a little more window dressing is required… Perhaps  a better script for AARHE with some art

I can make a “logo” with the national icons under the heading… just to give it something decent.

Also, if you add the few optional units to the same chart as the regular units with a line saying “optional” it would take minimal space…?

[tekkyy]

actually I’ll grab the normal AARHE logo then

actually optional units will add back quite some length
because I’ve removed a lot of references to optional units to get to this length

[Imperious Leader]

but it would be really nice to have at least 3 of them:

Fighters-bombers
Cruisers
Mechanized infantry

thats it. see how much it adds. ASW cant just be destroyers and we cant just have 2 types of planes, while the game needs a faster moving land unit to pair up with tanks ( 2 moving at 1 2 moving at 2)

[tekkyy]

well, you can’t have everything
think of what to give up if you think the optional units are that important
the most gameplay-significant optional unit is probably none of those but naval fighter anyway

its 4 pages and very tight on space
don’t think its worth push it over 4 pages
this is going to be critical for attractiveness of our house rule

I feel the better thing is for players to refer to AARHE and decide for themselves, if they feel like it
this is Lite, quick read is important
we can squeeze in a line is though (eg. "For optional units, consider picking from the full AARHE ruleset.)

[Imperious Leader]

ok fine.

[tekkyy]

changed incorrect infantry cost “2-4” to “3”, at units table at the end
added AARHE logo
added note about optional units

uploaded

lets roll (play via forum)
hows your schedule?
I might wait til I finish the 2 FFA games first

[Imperious Leader]

where is the link?

[tekkyy]

http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/aarhe/20080407_AARHE_Lite_watermark.pdf
http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/aarhe/20080407_AARHE_Lite_clear.pdf

or just go to http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/aarhe/
I’ve made it so if URL is incorrect you get thrown to AARHE root location

[Imperious Leader]

ok good. post on BGG, plus start a new entry on BGG for AARHE featuring only the latest files. Ill back it up with pictures from playtest games.

Use the title Axis and Allies Revised Historical edition, so it will reference properly with other games

[tekkyy]

actually in the short term I won’t have time to update the nation player aids
but otherwise latest files are in one direction already

http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/aarhe/player_aids/
http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/aarhe/nation_player_aids/

I guess I could post Lite on BGG
though I also feel like getting some feedback first
shouldn’t take long, its only 4 pages

[Bierwagen]

The “Air Movement” rules in “Non-Combat Movement” didn’t make the cut for Lite?  We really like the this one.

• Bierwagen