Late Barbarossa Attempts

[tambo264]

Hello All,

Does anyone wait to attack Russia on G4, or even G5? I am not a new player, so I am not looking for a lecture on all of the early attack strategies, I have gone Cobra Kai, and many G2 Barbarossa’s, with varying degrees of success. The group of players that I usually play with have tried out many of the strategies from our games great leaders, and we have developed a few of our own.n I have not tried a late Barbarossa strategy yet, and I want to mix things up.

Does anyone have any advice? Any examples of attempts, and how they transpired?

My plan would revolve around getting another 15-20 infantry to the front line for the start of the invasion, get German navy in the Med and give Italy a serious chance at taking Egypt, and the Middle East (and eating through Africa), Italy would have strong enough can-opener force for at least one major Russian attack (probably to open a hit on Leningrad or open up the south depending on Russian defenses and reaction to initial attack). I would add faster movers and planes to my purchases closer to the attack turn (usually do not need planes on first wave of any Barbarossa attack, so I would build them to have access for second wave once Leningrad and Ukraine become the targets).

Thanks for any responses to this, I am looking forward to discussing some ideas and experiences!

[CWO Marc]

No particular thoughts on the concept itself, but just on a point of nomenclature I would suggest that a “late Barbarossa” should have a code name that means grey beard rather than red beard.  :)

[weddingsinger]

One key relates to the REASON for a late Barbarossa.  If its simply to muster forces, its unnecessary because Germany can absolutely wreck Russia if it doesn’t mess around.

So, the two main reasons for a late Barbarossa would be either:

1. Sea Lion, in which case on G5 Germany can use its 10 transports to hit everything connected to the Baltic Sea
2. Germany in the Med and Middle East, which involves dropping a few ships in the Med on G2 via S.France, usually.

[tambo264]

If the strategy becomes a success, a grey beard could be the way to go haha

Weddingsinger, valid point, I agree with the first statement. I have seen some very successful Barbarossa’s from a G1 standpoint. I would lean towards your option number 2, as a reasoning behind the strategy. I would also work with the Japanese and have them go for a J2, maybe even J3, focused on a Malaysia -> Calcutta hop. If the G4 or G5 Russia attack is the plan, Japan would ideally focus some of their forces on taking the far eastern Russian territories, from J1 or 2 as well.

Has anyone tried this / been successful?

Success in my games, as the axis, has had a high correlation with two factors. 1) Italy being strong, and 2) Japan taking India. The late Barbarossa is geared at maximizing German resources on a German/Italian Afrika->Middle East campaign, and building a fortress in the Med.

[Ichabod]

@tambo264:

My plan would revolve around getting another 15-20 infantry to the front line for the start of the invasion.

I think if you have a ton if artillery it makes some viability to this plan and helps with lethality of the force.

However, I think your main concern should be Cairo. If you do not capture Cairo with your German Navy in the med in a timely manner, than I think the late Barbarossa plan failed. There is an art to what your plan describes. I do not know how to execute it well.

[weddingsinger]

Well, thinking it through….  Sure, wait til turn 4.  But only the first two turns of spending can do anything else.  If you keep spending on non-Russian front assets, you’ll get steamrolled by an invasion of Eastern Europe.

I think my first try of this would include:
G1 buy 2 bombers, save 6 ipcs.  Take S. France, Take Yugoslavia. 
Italy’s buy is…not sure.  Possibly a transport if you think it’ll be floating next turn but that’s unlikely.  Otherwise a plane if Italian fighters will go down sinking UK ships, or save it.  Italy moves its surviving ships to waters off S. France
G2 (if UK did an idiotic buy, or has zero fighters, do Sea Lion, otherwise…) buy carrier, transport, and possibly a destroyer for S. France.  Leaves 30+ ipcs to spend on… artillery for Germany (will take 2 turns to reach Eastern Poland)
I2 Italy can take Gibraltor or Morocco.
G3 buy mechs for Eastern Front, move Med fleet to take Gibraltor or Morocco
I3 Italy can buy a 2nd transport, if needed, If Cairo is weak, take it.  If not, or you only have 1 transport still, take Malta to deny England a landing spot and its original territories NO
G4 Germany invades Russia.  Med fleet continues to move with Italy.
I4… should be able to take Cairo

[taamvan]

You may see equal success with either plan, such is the weakness of Russia against Germany.   However, since you can smash them early or later, you should do it early before they have any chance to consolidate and grow–you have no way to reach threshold income (60+) without Russian territory, and if you take it, you take it away from them and for yourself, a double whammy.    Once you have control of 2 of his factories you are flooding tanks into this front, that moment should be as early as possible rather than building your own fleets or factories in order to do it later.