French Alpine Troop

[Motdc]

@Half-Track:

Char B1-bis is the best tank of the era period.  Sorry but defense of 5/5 and double shot hull cannon is hard to beat.  Mot is in for a real chalange.  I’ll put my 1939 French army against anything else from that time period.  I’ll even tell you the strategy and it’s historically similar to the French system.  I’ll move my whole army in one formation and mow down anything in my way.  Tanks and infrantry move in formation together.  I’ll break formation only in close combat situations.

Yeah it will be a tough game, but in general I think Germany VS France in 1939 has a lot of potential for some great matches.  Germany has the units to take on the Char B1-bis, starting with the 88.  But no doubt, its heck of a tank that has merit beyond just 1939.

[Motdc]

On the topic of scenarios…I’m still waiting for all of the those official Avalon Hill AAM scenario maps to get construected by some volunteers nudge

[Cobalt]

Roger. I was delyaed crossing the line of departure. I just sent a sample map. Let me know how it looks and we can continue from there.

[Motdc]

I’ll watch for it.  Fyi, I’m currently using hex-sides of 64 pixels, so as long as you are at that size or a little larger the you should be fine.

Mot

[Half-Track]

This topic it outlined in detail on the below forum.

http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/ftopic1005-0-asc-0.php

[Motdc]

I still think playing historical setups like this will be fun, lopsided or not.  I’m really lloking foeward to it.

[Der Kommander]

I read that link that Half-Track posted.  May–-------be a Char-Bi should cost 24, if you want to achieve historical results.  I kinda like being a slight under-dog.  It’s more challenging.  We’ll know after our game with the Tanks battling it out.  But then again if my Tank attk dice rolls stay with me again,  Maybe someone else could roll for me, because we won’t find out anything, except me getting smoked.  :-P
And Mot is coming at you with an exact opposite army of mine.  Probably realizing that German Armor is no match for Char-bi’s.

BRING IT ON FELLAS :evil:

[Motdc]

What I dodn’t catch was that the Hull Mounted Cannon can target Infantry…That is NOT consistant with similar units like the Lee that can only target vehicles with the 2nd shot.  Uncool.

Some thought on building VS France:

I think an 88 at 19 points is a good selection.  It’s got Extended Range 20 and it cannot move so you pretty much have to put way back somewhere with good LOS.  That should allow the Germans to create areas where the French armour will not go lightly, and allow the weaker (defensively) German armour to have a few safe spots.

Snipers are just as effective as the MG that cannot be fielded in 39 (though you can take a sand-bagged MG if one is really desired).

The heavy mortar also has massive range and will help make up for the lack of a MG.

Finally, you have the Neblwerfer.  If the French are foolish enough to group together with this unit still in play, then they are in for a rude awakening.  Blast and Bombardment @ 7/13/10 VS Inf and 7/7/7 VS Vehicles are rough enough, but the Rocket Salvo SA allows it to strike all units in the target hex and ALL adjacent hexes.

With all of that ranged death to provide cover, the Stormtroopers should be able to get within the 2 hex range they need.

Finally, the fighter should always be taken to take out the Panhards which, with their speed, can seriously threaten your distance-advantage.  The other counter to the Panhard is the BMW, which is almost as fast.

Mot

[Der Kommander]

Of course depending on the map you roll on the effectiveness of German artillery.  With the wrong map you got a useless artillery unit that pretty much just locks down a straight line (1 or 2 hexes) with no width that vehicles can pass thru but just not park on.  Unless we are playing with overwatch. :wink:
I thought that the Bimmers were faster than the Panhards.
Panhards speed 4
BMW      speed 5
???  I hope my stat cards aren’t wrong again. :?

[Motdc]

When in doubt, just make sure your artillery can light up the objective!

Yes, your move score is correct, but the Panhard has High Gear and Strike and Fade, which can make them elusive.

[Motdc]

Perhaps as a group it might come down to creating an optional historical bonus for the Germans.  I was thinking something to simulate the Blitzcraig tactics of the Germans striking fast and the Frances some-what static style of defense.

Perhaps something like, France cannot Move in their 1st Move phase.  Not an overwhelming advantage, nor should it be.

If after playing that for a while it doesn’t work, perhaps add in that the Germans always get deployment choice of side as well.

Comments?

[dezrtfish]

I think if you use the Haupsturmfuhrer you should get initiative most of the time.  My stab at that frenchy build would be somthing like:

2 Elite Panzer IV D
2 PzKpfw 38(t)
1 SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
1 Nebelwerfer
1 Wehrmacht Sniper
3 Panzer Grenadiers

I would use the combination of Armor, Sniper and Nebelwerfer to get rid of the Chars as quickly as possible. It would be a tough fight I think.

[Motdc]

The French commander has initiative +2, which is very good.  Though he’s not getting used in the French build posted.

I considered the PzKpfw 38(t) in my build because it’s fast, but it needs to be point-blank to be able to effectively hit the Char B1-bis.

Mot

[dezrtfish]

Well I figured the two 38’s would easily neutalize the Panhard.  The I would try for a flank with the 38’s with the Pzr IVs backing them up.  With the Sniper head shot and Nebelwerfer I think I could take out the Char bis.  I think as soon as the Char bis are gone it’s just a mater of mopping up.

I actualy don’t like balancing armor and infantry in a 100pt build.  If I am assaulting I want and armor build, if I’m defending I want a static build.  Tanks are for attacking Indantry, at and mortar for defending.

[Half-Track]

My suggestion is to add the Germans with an HQ and Ammo depot at no cost

[Motdc]

@Motdc:

@Half-Track:

My 1939 French Army can beat any 1939 German Army

Char B1-bis X 3
MAS X 7
Alpine Troop X 1
Panhard X 1

Something is wrong with the balance

OK, how 'bout this one:

SS-Haup           x1 @  7
Mauser            x4 @ 12
SS-Stormtrooper   x2 @ 14
W. Expert Sniper  x3 @ 33
BMW R75           x3 @ 15
Elite Panzer IVD  x1 @ 18

And that’s not using the airplane, the 88, the 81mm mortar, the neblwerfer, etc…the Germans have a lot more flexibility.

I’m considering swap out 1 Sniper, 1 BMW, and 1 Mauser (19 pts) for an 88.

The stupid thing is the German transprot that can actually pull the 88 is a 1941 unit  :?

[dezrtfish]

That does seem a bit dumb.  I am also nt too keen on the stacking limit that causes 88s to be imobile after placed.  I think that makes the 88 completely defencive.

If you want a defencive 39 build, take these units:

88mm Flak 36 x1
Wehrmacht Expert Sniper x 1
SS Huptsturmfuhrer
sGrW 34 81mm Mortar
Sandbagged machinegun Team x2
nebelwerfer x2
mauser K98 x3

Put them in three teams with the 88, sniper, haupsturmfuhrer, the morter and 1 K98 in the center  flanked by two teams of Machinegun, nebel and mauser each.  Make sure they have the ability to suport eachother and pick them apart before they can get close.

[Motdc]

Yeah, those sand-bagged MG teams are pretty tough if you can place them in cover.  Of course, they can’t move either.

I’m not so sure about the Neblewerfer.  Cool unit and I’ve been dying to use it since playing Panzer General on my playstation back in college.  But they can’t hurt the Char B1-bis, so I don’t know about taking two of them along with all of the other anti-inf artillery.

As to transporting the 88, I wonder if the heavy trucks NA set will include a 1939 German heavy truck.  That would be a slam-dunk.  I know they are including a new non-f;ak version of the 88 in NA set, so hopefully they have a few options of getting it onto the batlle-field.

Mot

[dezrtfish]

With the new cost for the Sd Kfz 251 (6) I think Panzer Grenadiers can finaly be used effectively in assault.  I’ve alsways thought Panzer Grenadiers had potential, but they were too expencive.  I also think a 251 should be able to transport an 88 but I digress.

So for an attack build I would go with:
PzKpfw 38 x 4
Sd Kfz 251 x 5
Pnzer Grenadier x3
SS Hauptsturmfuhrer x1
SS Stormtrooper x1

It might get ripped up but it sure would be a fast furious battle.

As for the nebelwerfers, they would lay waste to the Infantry and they have the ability to at least disrupt the Char bis.  I also think the Sniper, with proper protection is the perfect combo with the 88 - head shot means dead tank.

The thing with the Germans is they have so many units, flexibility is huge.

[Motdc]

If/when they rerelease the Panzergrenadier I hope they up the stats.  It should be 8/6 VS Inf.  Then it might be worth the extra 2 pts.