News flash: AXIS & ALLIES ANNIVERSARY EDITION due out oct 23 08

[Romulus]

@Krieghund:

@Romulus:

I have to agree with IL here. Nova edition is usually known as 1st edition, while MB is the second or “Classic” edition.
Revised is notoriously known as 4th edition so the CD ROM one have to be the 3rd!!!

I understand that people tend to think of this as the case, but there are two problems with this approach.

Firstly, there are three distinct editions of the MB version of the game - 1984, 1986 and 1997 (CD Edition).  Given that, in order to call Revised “4th Edition” and remain consistent with “edition numbers”, the Nova version would need to be called (as Imperious alluded to earlier) “Edition Zero”.  If you’re going to acknowledge the 1997 MB 3rd Edition, ignoring the existence of the 1984 MB 1st Edition is simply inconsistent and inaccurate.

Secondly, the Milton Bradley editions were all changes to the rules only, not to any of the game components (except for a small map change in 3rd Edition).  This makes all three MB editions basically tweaks to the rules of the same game.  However, it can be argued that the Nova and AH versions of A&A are completely different games from the MB version, since the maps and the rules themselves are significantly different.  I have heard this argument made many times.

Given all that, it just makes sense (at least to me) that the different publishers’ incarnations of A&A should be called “versions” and the separate releases of the games within each publisher be called “editions”, as I outlined above.  This precendent has, in effect, already been established by Milton Bradley.  Of course, everyone is free to draw his or her own conclusion from the facts at hand.

Thanks for the clarification Krieghund.

My idea was based on the options menu available in the CD-ROM edition.
In the game it is possible to select the 2nd edition rules (the same of the MB Board game) or the 3rd edition rules (introduced with the CD-ROM edition). So I was erroneously considering both the MB edition (1984 and 1986) as the same.

Maybe the use of “version” and “edition” terms, as you suggest, may help in being more clear.

[Krieghund]

@Imperious:

Well then post these elusive rules. scan and post these I don’t think anybody has ever discussed them before and plus they may have other ideas that never seen the light of day.

I’m kind of surprised that I couldn’t find them anywhere on-line, but I guess it makes sense.  The internet wasn’t that big in 1986, and the 2nd Edition rules really pretty much expunged the 1st.  It’s a bit of “history” that’s been lost.  I will post them as soon as I’m able.  Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to get my scanner to work since I “upgraded” my PC to Vista, so it may be several days before I get a chance to either fix the problem or buy a new scanner.  This at least gives me a good excuse to take the time and/or money necessary to resolve the problem.  I’ll let you know when and where I’ve got them posted.

[Lynxes]

I can’t find any information on the actual changes except the addition of cruisers, Italy and a “minor” China, and the addition of some extra terrítories, presumably around Italy and China.

As “no convoy zones” have been announced by Larry himself, I do hope that they add something to the Subs special abilities. The 2 hit rule for battleships was perfect and made it a good buy when it wasn’t in the earlier game.

Subs: blockade of IPCs if situated next to enemy ICs (“interdiction NA”) ?

Cruisers: I’m at a loss here, maybe a “blitz” function at sea ?

[Imperious Leader]

I think cruisers are gonna be the key to naval purchases. They are the best all around gunship and should have some special attribute

[losttribe04]

After revised came out I thought that the next world version of A&A that came out would have country specific units.  This idea was ferther reinforced by A&A D-Day with the German tanks.

But that doesn’t seem to be the case here.  Next time we will have to put a request in for something like the US light carrier that moves 3 spaces, the supperior German ARM, the hooah Russian infantrymen, the bad a** Japanese FTR, maybe a bigger transport capacity for the UK and let Italy and China keep the same old stuff I don’t know.

Maybe next time.

LT

[Lynxes]

/Imperious leader

I found an answer of a post by Axis_Roll by Larry where the former suggests some changes and the latter seems to be quite positive.

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/bb2/viewtopic.php?t=1519

They were:

1. Destroyer cost - from 12 to 10
2. A/C cost - from 16 to 14
3. BB cost - from 24 to 20
4. Subs - You can not attack subs with planes only. You must have a naval ship.

Number 4 could be even better I would say if you would need a destroyer, as in AAE. If we add in a cruiser at cost 15, A3, D3 and some special ability you would have a very interesting situation! Can’t wait till October!

[Imperious Leader]

Larry is a very positive person. Always encouraging…

Those AH people were bugging out about 4 years ago when i was saying BB should be 20 IPC and Destroyers 10 IPC… and eventually after telling me its “not balanced” have adopted it in their 2.1 version. They will deny this ever happened ( of course) but probably reflected on the idea of cheaper naval units after reading my posts back in 2004 about cheaper naval costs.

Second of all those prices (except CV) are the same prices as AARHE. A Carrier ( CV) for 14 IPC is too cheap for its value with 2 fighters. Studies have been done comparing BB, 2 destroyers, Carrier with fighters showing this out. A Carrier was built on the strong cruiser hull. they should be 2 hits along with cruisers.

So as per realistic ideas:

BB 20 IPC 4-4-2 (2 hits)
CA 15 IPC 3-3-3 ( 2 hits)
DD 10 IPC 2-2-2 ( 1 hit)
CV 15 IPC 1-2-3-( 2 hits)
SS (same as OOB)
AP 8 IPC 0-0-2 ( 1 hit)

Note: transports don’t have a defense value and cant be allocated as combat loses. You don’t bring liberty ships into large scale naval battles and they are no longer “human shields” for battles. The flip side is they cant block your navy from moving thru the sea zone because they are not combat ships.

also: carriers and cruisers are long range and have the fastest speed so they move three spaces. They are dedicated long range warships.

Also, So what seems to be a convenient plug for that variant you refer too is just what they call “being in the right place at the right time” making it seem by magic that larry converted to their thinking when he has not. The Harris forums contains all of the ideas mostly making up the new game, but are hidden in many little posts making it like a dig site for archaeologists looking for dinosaur bones. I can guarantee you the changes in this game will not be welcome to their thinking because they are indeed more historically realistic but functional. Loopholes have been closed and its more realistic to what the vast majority of others have commented on. Just watch what they do with defender retreats…

did i just say defender retreats?

I can tell you the new game will have alot more new ideas that are much closer to my interpretation than the folks at AH- AARe people. When the game comes out i will post all of these ideas.

Take care. Post often.

[squirecam]

Well, all your questions could be answered next week, in person, by LH himself. That is, if you go to Gencon…

[Imperious Leader]

Larry is posting a picture of the Chinese territories and that would be posted tonight?… as per request from another member asking about the split of territories.

AS i said before i don’t think Japan will need to attack Moscow in this game to win.

[Krupp Steel]

guess i cant wait for tonight then. :-P

[Imperious Leader]

Squirecam your on my +1 karma list. IN one year you will be at 730+ Karma. Think of it.

[losttribe04]

@Krupp:

guess i cant wait for tonight then. :-P

@Imperious:

Larry is posting a picture of the Chinese territories and that would be posted tonight?… as per request from another member asking about the split of territories.

AS i said before i don’t think Japan will need to attack Moscow in this game to win.

OK so where’s the picture?

LT

[Adlertag]

one more + karma from me, sqirecam, now if you add the 730 from IL to the 465 you will get from me, you just might have like 1200 applauds next year, now that is something to consider

[losttribe04]

squirecam,

Here you go +1.  Don’t spend it all in one place.

LT

[Lynxes]

/Imperious leader

I’m fully aware of the inherent conservatism of Larry Harris, and have followed some of the forums of the last few years. My questions are not related to house rules, which me and my friends have some of their own as I’m sure most gamer teams do.

I just wanted to figure out what the already finished product will be like. Since Revised was such a great improvement with a few simply fixes (territories, IPC boost for Germany), I actually have a good hope for real improvement this time around.

Of your ideas, I think the transport defend on ‘0’ is the best of the lot, but doubt if it’ll be implemented. But it would be a great leap for A&A-kind! I don’t think CV and CA should be 2 hits, that would be some kind of inflation in special abilities. Should Cruisers be able to move to a different sea zone if having a movement point left, even if that means participating in two combats? That would be a blitz-like ability that at the same time would not be too powerful since these occasions are not that common as players usually pool their fleets to one sea zone. In Guadalcanal, cruisers don’t even have a special ability, do they?

[losttribe04]

I think that having multiple hit ships should be added.  I mean lets not get carried away here and add 3+ hit units. I’m just saying look how much your shelling out for a navy that’s a vulnerable as an INF unit? That would be a big plus.

I agree transports shouldn’t have a defence value.  That would make for an interesting new navy fodder unit.

LT

[Romulus]

IMHO transport should be even not allowed to be in the battle, they should be simply destroyed after the battle if the enemy had defeat the escort.

In the Revised naval battle I imagine a dialogue like this between the Captain of a BB and the Gunner Officer:

Captain: enemy fleet in range, 1 BB and four TRNs, engage the enemy!
Gunner Officer: Yes sir, distance determined, fire data transmitted to the turrets, waiting the order to open fire.
Captain: Open fire!!!
Gunner Officer: All turrets Fire!
Captain: what happened?
Gunner Officer: we scored a hit!
Captain: so we have sunk that pensky battleship?
Gunner Officer: No, sir, we have hit a TRN!
Captain: Damn it! Fire Again!
Gunner Officer: All turrets Fire!
Captain: and now?
Gunner Officer: We hit another TRN!
Captain: Fire Again!
Gunner Officer: another TRN has been hit!
Captain: But! Why are you not aiming at the enemy BB?

Hiss… Incoming shell from the enemy BB…BOOM! (Ammo depot Explosion)

Captain(swimming): Gunner Officer, what happened?
Gunner Officer (swimming): The Enemy battleship hit us!
Captain(swimming): I know, we have not TRNs to be hit instead of us!

[Imperious Leader]

Good post.  Trannys are not ALSO destroyers, cruisers and the mysterious and elusive “support combat ships” They are just the means to carry war materials to foreign lands and transport oil and resources. They don’t have deck guns, no torpedoes, nothing…

Battleships don’t bring squadrons of gunless ,slow moving barges to provide “human shield defense” for battles like Midway or Leyte Gulf. They cant even get into anything over 20 or so knots.  When you send your only bomber ( representing thousands of planes) they dont just shoot these suckers down with mysterious deck guns, that double as high altitude AA gun battery’s.

AA guns cant hit 1 out of 6 either but thats another gaff. Of all SBR only a sum TOTAL of 10% of planes were damaged or destroyed in this manner.

[Imperious Leader]

On the other issue:

Larry posted that he misspoke and cannot post a picture yet, but he will as soon as he is allowed.

Of course i just relay the info here seconds after its posted.

the window of doing this cant be greater than about 2 weeks because the game will be photographed at Gen Con.

[losttribe04]

Why do you think that getting this game on the shelves takes so long?  Do you think they just need to produce a bunch of copies to ship out the first wave with?

LT