Tirano (X) Vs. Ichabod (L+17)

[Tirano]

Very well done, I did not foresee that coming.  Seeing as Japan (while in a solid position) cannot reasonably win the game on its next turn, that will be a win for you.  As for the Iraq strategy, It really seemed inconsequential to me. From my perspective I threw away my real chance on the turn that I captured Norway with those great dice.  I didnt see your reinforcements in Iceland and so didn’t prepare for a second assault with mechs.  Time that was wasted and left me permanently behind the 8 ball.  You outplayed me for sure, but I don’t think the Us in Iraq is why.  Great Game :)

[Ichabod]

Cool. Agree on your comments about the US in Iraq having minimal effect, in fact in this game, I think it slowed me down and tied up resources. My builds were going to enter into China to create another front since I didn’t need them to help Russia anymore. China had 9 IPCs saved for the turn that the US planted a stack. But another China front would really have been a side show and just another nail in the coffin.

I think the US in Iraq thing would be better served if doing a Kill Japan First approach. The US still has to fly several planes and initially get into position to persuade Germany from trying to come down. So, in the beginning it might help Russia keep Germany out of Stalingrad.

My theory is that a US in Iraq factory would help give the UK more beef to help hold the Middle East which is their most important area to defend after Cairo. The UK would be more freed up to do whatever is best to help Russia while the US mostly spends against Japan.

As far as Japan goes in our game, Japan is about to permanently lose India. 3 Anzac fighters + 1 French infantry (viva la France) and Japan’s odds are like 10-14% chances…India will be defended; and the transports off of French Indo China would be blocked from the money islands next turn. Then the UK gets to build on India and the UK has money to buy 3 fighters on Perisa to add to the air force that will land on India.

[Ichabod]

It was a fun game…and there was a moment that I thought you were going to win it.

[Tirano]

@Ichabod:

It was a fun game…and there was a moment that I thought you were going to win it.

Much agreed on all your comments.  I think having the US in the middle east is very great, but I am much more inclined to try it with a neutral crush and have them set up in Saudi Arabia.  Which from my experience only happens in the late game or where you have some how rules. It might be nice to try a Saudi IC in a game where you are doing a Spanish beachhead.  That is something that works best in a total domination type game in my opinion.

I remember us talking about a league match and I have had a few games end (others near ending) but would prefer another casual over league to be honest.  I would be interested in some experimental strats.  If you are up for that let me know and we can just keep using this thread and start a new.

[Ichabod]

We could keep using this thread and switch sides. What kind of experimental game would you want to try? Sometimes I want to do stuff with the axis like play the med if the UK fails in a UK 1 attack…ect. I wouldn’t want to be restricted in that type scenario.

Would you like to try the allies’ neutral crush thing along with Spanish beachhead? I tried a neutral crush against simon 33. His Japan became a super monster. The US couldn’t sustain both theaters. He is a great axis defense player. He gets to economic stability with europe and pacific axis…than just defends until he has overwhelming odds everywhere. And I mean everywhere. It’s incredible. Have you played him?

Take a 17 bid?

I still think the US in Iraq thing has merit to some degree; but only in a J1 DOW game. I probably didn’t need to spend anymore in the factory once it was apparent I didn’t need it. Think of it as insurance.

[Tirano]

I will have to play him, i have yet to do so.  I recently tried two games where I focused as Germany pretty heavily in the med (both games no taranto due to great G1).  I would be happy to try some Neutral crush game-play.  The way I am wanting to try it, would you mind doing a J3 or J4?  I know for Iraq we did a J1, but iI would like to try a later Dow by Japan if that is good with you.

As for bid, I can make 17 work (I know it is what I gave you this game) but since this a friendly would you mind going to 19?  Wanting to try a new bid placement (to me) and I don’t think 19 is unreasonably high.  I will make 17 work however if you insist.

If a bid of 19 then: Sub in 91 Sub in 98 and Trans in 71.

If a bid of 17 then: Sub in 91 Sub in 98 and $5 to England (Mech in Egypt if you don’t play where you can save IPC from bid)

[Ichabod]

A J1 DOW in our game was required otherwise we would have just been playing a normal game. There would have been no US in Iraq. You asked to see it! There really wasn’t a negative effect for the Axis as result of doing a J1. The US had to spend money on sending planes that way in the beginning.

But if you want to do a neutral crush (which is a KGF) strategy. And you want me to wait till J3 or J4, it’s saying I need Japan neutered plus a bid so that I can see if Germany really gets destroyed. You won’t really be validating or actually testing a plan. Waiting till J3 is not optimal in 40.2 because India gets too strong.

I’m ok with you getting a bid of 19. But why do you need Japan held back? Doesn’t that restrict the US lots of money you need for an invasion fleet? Please explain.

Future reference. I’m ok with bid money in the bank so long as the country doesn’t buy a factory or any base turn 1.

[Tirano]

Well the reason is because with a J1/2 I have found it is vital for the US to spend HEAVY in the Pacific, so much so that I would not go for a neutral crush unless it was THE ONLY landing spot.  Therefore in an early Jdow I would likely not try a neutral crush in a “real” game which is what I’m play-Testing for.  And while a late Jdow is suboptimal for Japan, it is not always so for the axis as a whole and I see more and more late jdows in G40.

As for the bid, that seems like a weird restriction on no buying factories/airbases.  It doesn’t apply to this game so no problem, but seeing as most of time saved $$ would go to UK it is weird since it is not uncommon to see a UK1 buy of a IC in Egypt or Airbase in Gibraltar.

Start the game with the 19 bid if you will, do an early Jdow if you wish but I will likely not try my neutral crush strategy.

[Ichabod]

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 1

Purchase Units - Germans
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Adding units owned by British to 98 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
            EDIT: Adding units owned by British to 71 Sea Zone: 1 transport
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Germans buy 6 artilleries and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Politics - Germans
            Germans takes Political Action: Political Action Germans To War With Chinese
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Germans To War With Chinese: Changing Relationship for Germans and Chinese from Neutrality to War

Combat Move - Germans
            1 submarine moved from 103 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 117 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 108 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 124 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 118 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone
            1 battleship moved from 113 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to 110 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Germany to 111 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Norway to 111 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 111 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Western Germany to 111 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 111 Sea Zone
            3 armour, 2 artilleries and 4 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to France
            1 artillery, 3 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to France
            3 armour moved from Greater Southern Germany to France
            2 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Greater Southern Germany to Yugoslavia
            1 fighter moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Poland to Yugoslavia
            1 infantry moved from Romania to Yugoslavia

triplea_42125_Ger1.tsvg

[Ichabod]

Scrambles, OOL?

[Ichabod]

@Tirano:

Well the reason is because with a J1/2 I have found it is vital for the US to spend HEAVY in the Pacific, so much so that I would not go for a neutral crush unless it was THE ONLY landing spot.  Therefore in an early Jdow I would likely not try a neutral crush in a �real� game which is what I�m play-Testing for.  And while a late Jdow is suboptimal for Japan, it is not always so for the axis as a whole and I see more and more late jdows in G40.Â

As for the bid, that seems like a weird restriction on no buying factories/airbases.  It doesn�t apply to this game so no problem, but seeing as most of time saved $$ would go to UK it is weird since it is not uncommon to see a UK1 buy of a IC in Egypt or Airbase in Gibraltar.Â

Start the game with the 19 bid if you will, do an early Jdow if you wish but I will likely not try my neutral crush strategy.

I just don’t think bid money should be used for bases. I guess buying non-base type stuff with bid money is a work around and I’m ok with that. So, like the UK could bid a fighter to Scotland which frees up 10 IPCs towards an IC or base somewhere while still add defense to London. It’s not weird too me. And besides, there was enough consensus to at least address bid money being spent on bases or factories it in the league rules to a certain degree.

As far as the late Japan DOW goes, it let’s India stack up which makes it really difficult for Japan to get the Victory City win. Blowing through China doesn’t win the game for Japan. I don’t like to bring Japan into the war any later than turn 2. But I will setup for a J3 or J4 DOW because I get your explanation. Please try out your neutral crush gambit strategy. Also, late Japan DOWs like turn 3 are mostly a BM3 thing because of the Chinese insurgency change. I think if you did a poll for 40.2, J2 DOWs, than J1 DOWs would get the most votes. J3 or J4 would be last.

[Tirano]

I agree that J3/4 is less popular than J1/J2 but it is not unviable.  As for India It just means that you are proboably going to hit them like round 6/7 rather than as early as 3 or 4.

[Tirano]

Max scramble both, British fighters taken last. You forgot my sub in 91, I will edit it in on my turn.

[Ichabod]

@Tirano:

Max scramble both, British fighters taken last. You forgot my sub in 91, I will edit it in on my turn.

I’ll add it. Yes forgot. I’ll have to re-adjust my initial turn…so I’ll ask for OOL again. I wouldn’t attack a cruiser and a sub with a lone sub.

[Ichabod]

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 1

Purchase Units - Germans
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Adding units owned by British to 91 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
            EDIT: Adding units owned by British to 98 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
            EDIT: Adding units owned by British to 71 Sea Zone: 1 transport
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Germans buy 6 artilleries and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Politics - Germans
            Germans takes Political Action: Political Action Germans To War With Chinese
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Germans To War With Chinese: Changing Relationship for Germans and Chinese from Neutrality to War

Combat Move - Germans
            1 submarine moved from 117 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 108 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 103 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 118 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 124 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone
            1 battleship moved from 113 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Germany to 111 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to 111 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Norway to 111 Sea Zone
            2 tactical_bombers moved from Western Germany to 111 Sea Zone
            3 armour, 2 artilleries and 4 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to France
            1 artillery, 3 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to France
            3 armour moved from Greater Southern Germany to France
            2 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Greater Southern Germany to Yugoslavia
            1 infantry moved from Romania to Yugoslavia
            1 fighter moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Poland to Yugoslavia

triplea_42125_Ger1.tsvg

[Ichabod]

Scramble and OOL?

Proper to start game with all stuff on the board.

[Tirano]

No prob I understand the adjustment.  Scramble 111 with Fighter as the last casualty.

[Ichabod]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 1

Purchase Units - Germans
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Adding units owned by British to 91 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
            EDIT: Adding units owned by British to 98 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
            EDIT: Adding units owned by British to 71 Sea Zone: 1 transport
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Germans buy 6 artilleries and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Politics - Germans
            Germans takes Political Action: Political Action Germans To War With Chinese
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Germans To War With Chinese: Changing Relationship for Germans and Chinese from Neutrality to War

Combat Move - Germans
            1 submarine moved from 117 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 108 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 103 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 118 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 124 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone
            1 battleship moved from 113 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Germany to 111 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to 111 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Norway to 111 Sea Zone
            2 tactical_bombers moved from Western Germany to 111 Sea Zone
            3 armour, 2 artilleries and 4 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to France
            1 artillery, 3 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to France
            3 armour moved from Greater Southern Germany to France
            2 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Greater Southern Germany to Yugoslavia
            1 infantry moved from Romania to Yugoslavia
            1 fighter moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Poland to Yugoslavia

Combat - Germans
            British scrambles 1 units out of Scotland to defend against the attack in 111 Sea Zone
            Battle in France
                Germans attack with 6 armour, 3 artilleries, 7 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys
                British defend with 1 armour and 1 artillery; French defend with 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 factory_major, 1 fighter and 6 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 6 armour, 3 artilleries, 7 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys in France, round 2 : 4/19 hits, 6.17 expected hits
                    French roll dice for 1 aaGun, 2 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 6 infantry in France, round 2 : 7/11 hits, 4.33 expected hits
                    1 aaGun owned by the French, 7 infantry owned by the Germans and 3 infantry owned by the French lost in France
                    Germans roll dice for 6 armour, 3 artilleries and 3 mech_infantrys in France, round 3 : 4/12 hits, 5.00 expected hits
                    French roll dice for 2 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 3 infantry in France, round 3 : 4/8 hits, 3.33 expected hits
                    1 artillery owned by the Germans, 3 infantry owned by the French, 1 artillery owned by the British and 3 mech_infantrys owned by the Germans lost in France
                    Germans roll dice for 6 armour and 2 artilleries in France, round 4 : 4/8 hits, 3.67 expected hits
                    French roll dice for 2 armour, 1 artillery and 1 fighter in France, round 4 : 2/4 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                    2 artilleries owned by the Germans, 1 armour owned by the French, 1 fighter owned by the French, 1 armour owned by the British and 1 artillery owned by the French lost in France
                Germans captures 19PUs while taking French capital
                Germans converts factory_major into different units
                Germans win, taking France from French with 6 armour remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
                Casualties for Germans: 3 artilleries, 7 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys
                Casualties for British: 1 armour and 1 artillery
                Casualties for French: 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 6 infantry
            Battle in Yugoslavia
                Germans attack with 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 7 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Neutral_Allies defend with 5 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 7 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Yugoslavia, round 2 : 5/11 hits, 3.33 expected hits
                    Neutral_Allies roll dice for 5 infantry in Yugoslavia, round 2 : 1/5 hits, 1.67 expected hits
                    5 infantry owned by the Neutral_Allies and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Yugoslavia
                Germans win, taking Yugoslavia from Neutral_Allies with 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 6 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 12
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Neutral_Allies: 5 infantry
            Battle in 110 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 2 fighters, 2 submarines and 2 tactical_bombers
                British defend with 1 battleship and 1 cruiser; French defend with 1 cruiser
                    Germans roll dice for 2 submarines in 110 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British
                    Germans roll dice for 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers in 110 Sea Zone, round 2 : 4/6 hits, 3.67 expected hits
                    British roll dice for 1 battleship and 2 cruisers in 110 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 1.67 expected hits
                    1 cruiser owned by the French, 1 cruiser owned by the British and 1 battleship owned by the British lost in 110 Sea Zone
                Germans win with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 2 fighters, 2 submarines and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 44
                Casualties for British: 1 battleship and 1 cruiser
                Casualties for French: 1 cruiser
            Battle in 111 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 1 bomber, 2 fighters, 2 submarines and 2 tactical_bombers
                British defend with 1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter
                    Germans roll dice for 2 submarines in 111 Sea Zone, round 2 : 2/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British
                    Germans roll dice for 1 bomber, 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers in 111 Sea Zone, round 2 : 3/5 hits, 3.00 expected hits
                    British roll dice for 1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter in 111 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/4 hits, 2.17 expected hits
                    1 destroyer owned by the British, 1 cruiser owned by the British, 1 battleship owned by the British and 1 fighter owned by the British lost in 111 Sea Zone
                Germans win with 1 bomber, 2 fighters, 2 submarines and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 50
                Casualties for British: 1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter
            Battle in 106 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 1 submarine
                British defend with 1 destroyer and 1 transport
                    Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 106 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                    British roll dice for 1 destroyer and 1 transport in 106 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                    1 destroyer owned by the British and 1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in 106 Sea Zone
                British win with 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
                Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
                Casualties for British: 1 destroyer
            Trigger Germans Conquer France: Setting switch to true for conditionAttachment_French_1_Liberation_Switch attached to French

Non Combat Move - Germans
            3 infantry moved from Norway to Finland
                  Germans take Finland from Neutral_Axis
            1 transport moved from 114 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from Denmark to 113 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 113 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 114 Sea Zone to Poland
            1 cruiser moved from 114 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
            1 bomber, 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 111 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Germany to Poland
            3 aaGuns, 3 artilleries and 11 infantry moved from Germany to Poland
            1 armour and 2 infantry moved from Slovakia Hungary to Poland
            1 infantry moved from Romania to Bulgaria
                  Germans take Bulgaria from Neutral_Axis
            2 fighters moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
            2 tactical_bombers moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
            1 bomber moved from 110 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            3 aaGuns moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Holland Belgium to Western Germany
            1 fighter moved from Yugoslavia to Southern Italy
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Yugoslavia to Southern Italy

Place Units - Germans
            1 submarine placed in 112 Sea Zone
            6 artilleries placed in Germany

Turn Complete - Germans
            Germans collect 39 PUs; end with 58 PUs
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 63 PUs
            Objective Germans 1 Trade with Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 68 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Germans : 1.50
    British : -3.17
    French : 3.33
    Neutral_Allies : -0.67

triplea_42125_Ger1.tsvg

[Ichabod]

@Ichabod:

    Germans : 1.50
    British : -3.17
    French : 3.33
    Neutral_Allies : -0.67

France rolled well…UK sucked.

I wish it was the other way around…rather have my mechs and artillery in Paris than all of my ships…same TUV for same TUV amount.

[Tirano]

Wow what a G1.  France went great and only one German sub was killed.