Hi,
If you dont mind I would like to call this one already, somehow I started very badly with Germany and in the pacific. Ill start a new game tomorrow. Hope you dont mind. Thanks for your patience in the matter.
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9
Game History
Round: 1
Purchase Units - Chinese
Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
Chinese buy 4 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;
Combat Move - Chinese
1 fighter moved from Szechwan to Yunnan
4 infantry moved from Szechwan to Yunnan
1 infantry moved from Kweichow to Yunnan
Combat - Chinese
Battle in Yunnan
Chinese attack with 1 fighter and 5 infantry
Japanese defend with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter and 5 infantry in Yunnan, round 2 : 0/6 hits, 1.33 expected hits
Japanese roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Yunnan, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
1 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Yunnan
Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter and 4 infantry in Yunnan, round 3 : 2/5 hits, 1.17 expected hits
Japanese roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Yunnan, round 3 : 2/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
2 infantry owned by the Japanese and 2 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Yunnan
Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Yunnan, round 4 : 2/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits
Japanese roll dice for 1 artillery in Yunnan, round 4 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
1 artillery owned by the Japanese and 1 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Yunnan
Chinese win, taking Yunnan from Japanese with 1 fighter and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -2
Casualties for Chinese: 4 infantry
Casualties for Japanese: 1 artillery and 2 infantry
Non Combat Move - Chinese
1 fighter moved from Yunnan to Sikang
1 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Hopei
1 infantry moved from Szechwan to Shensi
Place Units - Chinese
1 infantry placed in Szechwan
1 infantry placed in Szechwan
1 infantry placed in Shensi
1 infantry placed in Szechwan
Turn Complete - Chinese
Chinese collect 9 PUs; end with 9 PUs
Objective Chinese 1 Burma Road: Chinese met a national objective for an additional 6 PUs; end with 15 PUs
Combat Hit Differential Summary :
Chinese : 0.67
Japanese : 1.67
TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9
Game History
Round: 1
Politics - British
British takes Political Action: Political Action British To War With Japanese
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and British from Neutrality to Unprovoked
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and UK_Pacific from Neutrality to Unprovoked
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and ANZAC from Neutrality to Unprovoked
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Dutch from Neutrality to War
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and British from Neutrality to Allied
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and UK_Pacific from Concordant to Allied
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and ANZAC from Neutrality to Allied
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly
Combat Move - British
1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to 96 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Egypt to 98 Sea Zone
1 artillery moved from Egypt to 98 Sea Zone
1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 98 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 96 Sea Zone to Libya
1 artillery moved from 96 Sea Zone to Libya
1 tactical_bomber moved from 98 Sea Zone to Libya
1 cruiser moved from 98 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from Malta to Libya
1 mech_infantry moved from Egypt to Ethiopia
1 infantry moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Ethiopia
1 infantry moved from India to 39 Sea Zone
1 artillery moved from India to 39 Sea Zone
1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 39 Sea Zone to 76 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 76 Sea Zone to Ethiopia
1 artillery moved from 76 Sea Zone to Ethiopia
1 fighter moved from Burma to Hunan
1 fighter moved from India to Hunan
1 tactical_bomber moved from India to Hunan
1 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Kiangsi
Chinese take Kiangsi from Japanese
1 battleship moved from 111 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 109 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from Scotland to 112 Sea Zone
2 fighters moved from United Kingdom to 112 Sea Zone
1 bomber moved from United Kingdom to 112 Sea Zone
Combat - British
Combat Hit Differential Summary :
Do you wish to scramble?
Shit just realised I saved it at the wrong time. I’ll redo it and post again. I’ll repeat every move I made. Sorry.
TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9
Game History
Round: 1
Politics - British
British takes Political Action: Political Action British To War With Japanese
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and British from Neutrality to Unprovoked
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and UK_Pacific from Neutrality to Unprovoked
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and ANZAC from Neutrality to Unprovoked
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Dutch from Neutrality to War
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and British from Neutrality to Allied
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and UK_Pacific from Concordant to Allied
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and ANZAC from Neutrality to Allied
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly
Combat Move - British
1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to 96 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Egypt to 98 Sea Zone
1 artillery moved from Egypt to 98 Sea Zone
1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 98 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
1 artillery moved from 96 Sea Zone to Libya
1 infantry moved from 96 Sea Zone to Libya
1 tactical_bomber moved from 98 Sea Zone to Libya
1 cruiser moved from 98 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from Malta to Libya
1 mech_infantry moved from Egypt to Ethiopia
1 infantry moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Ethiopia
1 infantry moved from India to 39 Sea Zone
1 artillery moved from India to 39 Sea Zone
1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 39 Sea Zone to 76 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 76 Sea Zone to Ethiopia
1 artillery moved from 76 Sea Zone to Ethiopia
1 fighter moved from Burma to Hunan
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from India to Hunan
1 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Kiangsi
Chinese take Kiangsi from Japanese
1 battleship moved from 111 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 109 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from Scotland to 112 Sea Zone
1 bomber and 2 fighters moved from United Kingdom to 112 Sea Zone
Combat - British
Combat Hit Differential Summary :
Phew, think I’ve done it correctly. Please confirm that I have and if so the million dollar question, scamble? :roll:
Yes you did it correct :mrgreen:
And yes i would like a max scramble
I’m unsure how you want to assign the OOL for the sea battle in 112.
3 hit points. How do you want to assign? TripleA suggested CV 2, sub 1.
glad you ask. i would like 1 on the sub and 2 on the tacticals
2 hits. You have 1 CV, 1 Cruiser, 3 fighters
and I have 1 damaged BB, 1 Bomber, 1 fighter
i have 2 tacticals on the carrier
TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9
Game History
Round: 1
Politics - British
British takes Political Action: Political Action British To War With Japanese
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and British from Neutrality to Unprovoked
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and UK_Pacific from Neutrality to Unprovoked
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and ANZAC from Neutrality to Unprovoked
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Dutch from Neutrality to War
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and British from Neutrality to Allied
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and UK_Pacific from Concordant to Allied
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and ANZAC from Neutrality to Allied
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly
Combat Move - British
1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to 96 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Egypt to 98 Sea Zone
1 artillery moved from Egypt to 98 Sea Zone
1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 98 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
1 artillery moved from 96 Sea Zone to Libya
1 infantry moved from 96 Sea Zone to Libya
1 tactical_bomber moved from 98 Sea Zone to Libya
1 cruiser moved from 98 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from Malta to Libya
1 mech_infantry moved from Egypt to Ethiopia
1 infantry moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Ethiopia
1 infantry moved from India to 39 Sea Zone
1 artillery moved from India to 39 Sea Zone
1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 39 Sea Zone to 76 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 76 Sea Zone to Ethiopia
1 artillery moved from 76 Sea Zone to Ethiopia
1 fighter moved from Burma to Hunan
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from India to Hunan
1 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Kiangsi
Chinese take Kiangsi from Japanese
1 battleship moved from 111 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 109 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from Scotland to 112 Sea Zone
1 bomber and 2 fighters moved from United Kingdom to 112 Sea Zone
Combat - British
Germans scrambles 3 units out of Western Germany to defend against the attack in 112 Sea Zone
Battle in 112 Sea Zone
British attack with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 1 destroyer and 3 fighters
Germans defend with 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 3 fighters, 1 submarine, 2 tactical_bombers and 2 transports
British roll dice for 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 1 destroyer and 3 fighters in 112 Sea Zone, round 2 : 3/6 hits, 3.17 expected hits
Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 112 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
Germans roll dice for 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 3 fighters, 2 tactical_bombers and 2 transports in 112 Sea Zone, round 2 : 3/7 hits, 3.83 expected hits
1 destroyer owned by the British, 1 submarine owned by the Germans, 2 tactical_bombers owned by the Germans and 2 fighters owned by the British lost in 112 Sea Zone
British roll dice for 1 battleship, 1 bomber and 1 fighter in 112 Sea Zone, round 3 : 2/3 hits, 1.83 expected hits
Combat Hit Differential Summary :
Germans : -1.00
British : 0.00
Need to know OOL for this battle. :wink:
i’m not really sure how you conducted this combat.
I know what i had at the start of the battle and what you attacked with.
How did you assign losses during first round off combat?
i’m not really sure how you conducted this combat.
I know what i had at the start of the battle and what you attacked with.
How did you assign losses during first round off combat?
If you remember the first round and I asked you how you wanted the 3 hits to be assigned as quoted below;
@scousemart:
I’m unsure how you want to assign the OOL for the sea battle in 112.
3 hit points. How do you want to assign? TripleA suggested CV 2, sub 1.
glad you ask. i would like 1 on the sub and 2 on the tacticals
I did as you requested and now I’m asking for how you want the hits to be assigned on the next round. Still the sea battle in 112. For this round I have to assign 2 hits to your forces.
Sorry if this seems to be a bit confusing. I hope what I’m doing is correct. Let me know otherwise. :-)
ahh thx for the clarification :-)
1 hit on the carrier and on on the cruiser
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9
Game History
Round: 1
Purchase Units - British
British buy 1 bomber, 1 fighter and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;
Purchase Units - UK_Pacific
UK_Pacific buy 3 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;
Politics - British
British takes Political Action: Political Action British To War With Japanese
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and British from Neutrality to Unprovoked
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and UK_Pacific from Neutrality to Unprovoked
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and ANZAC from Neutrality to Unprovoked
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Dutch from Neutrality to War
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and British from Neutrality to Allied
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and UK_Pacific from Concordant to Allied
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and ANZAC from Neutrality to Allied
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly
Combat Move - British
1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to 96 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Egypt to 98 Sea Zone
1 artillery moved from Egypt to 98 Sea Zone
1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 98 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
1 artillery moved from 96 Sea Zone to Libya
1 infantry moved from 96 Sea Zone to Libya
1 tactical_bomber moved from 98 Sea Zone to Libya
1 cruiser moved from 98 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from Malta to Libya
1 mech_infantry moved from Egypt to Ethiopia
1 infantry moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Ethiopia
1 infantry moved from India to 39 Sea Zone
1 artillery moved from India to 39 Sea Zone
1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 39 Sea Zone to 76 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 76 Sea Zone to Ethiopia
1 artillery moved from 76 Sea Zone to Ethiopia
1 fighter moved from Burma to Hunan
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from India to Hunan
1 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Kiangsi
Chinese take Kiangsi from Japanese
1 battleship moved from 111 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 109 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from Scotland to 112 Sea Zone
1 bomber and 2 fighters moved from United Kingdom to 112 Sea Zone
Combat - British
Germans scrambles 3 units out of Western Germany to defend against the attack in 112 Sea Zone
Battle in 112 Sea Zone
British attack with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 1 destroyer and 3 fighters
Germans defend with 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 3 fighters, 1 submarine, 2 tactical_bombers and 2 transports
British roll dice for 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 1 destroyer and 3 fighters in 112 Sea Zone, round 2 : 3/6 hits, 3.17 expected hits
Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 112 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
Germans roll dice for 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 3 fighters, 2 tactical_bombers and 2 transports in 112 Sea Zone, round 2 : 3/7 hits, 3.83 expected hits
1 destroyer owned by the British, 1 submarine owned by the Germans, 2 tactical_bombers owned by the Germans and 2 fighters owned by the British lost in 112 Sea Zone
British roll dice for 1 battleship, 1 bomber and 1 fighter in 112 Sea Zone, round 3 : 2/3 hits, 1.83 expected hits
Units damaged: 1 carrier owned by the Germans
Germans roll dice for 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 3 fighters and 2 transports in 112 Sea Zone, round 3 : 3/5 hits, 2.83 expected hits
1 bomber owned by the British, 1 battleship owned by the British, 1 cruiser owned by the Germans and 1 fighter owned by the British lost in 112 Sea Zone
Germans win with 1 carrier, 3 fighters and 2 transports remaining. Battle score for attacker is -30
Casualties for British: 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 1 destroyer and 3 fighters
Casualties for Germans: 1 cruiser, 1 submarine and 2 tactical_bombers
Battle in 96 Sea Zone
British attack with 1 cruiser, 1 fighter and 1 transport
Italians defend with 1 destroyer and 1 transport
British roll dice for 1 cruiser, 1 fighter and 1 transport in 96 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 1.00 expected hits
Italians roll dice for 1 destroyer and 1 transport in 96 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
1 destroyer owned by the Italians lost in 96 Sea Zone
1 transport owned by the Italians lost in 96 Sea Zone
British win with 1 cruiser, 1 fighter and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 15
Casualties for Italians: 1 destroyer and 1 transport
Battle in Libya
British attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
Italians defend with 1 artillery and 1 infantry
British roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Libya, round 2 : 2/4 hits, 1.83 expected hits
Italians roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Libya, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
1 artillery owned by the Italians, 1 infantry owned by the Italians and 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Libya
British win, taking Libya from Italians with 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
Casualties for British: 1 infantry
Casualties for Italians: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
Battle in Ethiopia
British attack with 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
Italians defend with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
British roll dice for 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Ethiopia, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1.00 expected hits
Italians roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Ethiopia, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
1 infantry owned by the Italians lost in Ethiopia
British roll dice for 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Ethiopia, round 3 : 0/4 hits, 1.00 expected hits
Italians roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Ethiopia, round 3 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
1 infantry owned by the British lost in Ethiopia
British roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Ethiopia, round 4 : 1/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits
Italians roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Ethiopia, round 4 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
1 infantry owned by the Italians lost in Ethiopia
British roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Ethiopia, round 5 : 0/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits
Italians roll dice for 1 artillery in Ethiopia, round 5 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
British roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Ethiopia, round 6 : 3/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits
Italians roll dice for 1 artillery in Ethiopia, round 6 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
1 artillery owned by the Italians and 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Ethiopia
British win, taking Ethiopia from Italians with 1 artillery and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
Casualties for Italians: 1 artillery and 2 infantry
Casualties for British: 2 infantry
Battle in Hunan
British attack with 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber
Japanese defend with 1 artillery
British roll dice for 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber in Hunan, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.67 expected hits
Japanese roll dice for 1 artillery in Hunan, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
1 artillery owned by the Japanese lost in Hunan
British win with 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
Casualties for Japanese: 1 artillery
Moving scrambled unit from 112 Sea Zone back to originating territory: Western Germany
Moving scrambled unit from 112 Sea Zone back to originating territory: Western Germany
Moving scrambled unit from 112 Sea Zone back to originating territory: Western Germany
Non Combat Move - British
1 tactical_bomber moved from Hunan to Burma
2 fighters moved from Hunan to Burma
1 battleship moved from 37 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from West India to Eastern Persia
British take Eastern Persia from Neutral_Allies
1 destroyer moved from 71 Sea Zone to 76 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from Union of South Africa to Rhodesia
1 fighter moved from 96 Sea Zone to Malta
1 fighter moved from Libya to 96 Sea Zone
1 tactical_bomber moved from Libya to 96 Sea Zone
1 tactical_bomber moved from 96 Sea Zone to Malta
1 carrier moved from 98 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 98 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
1 armour moved from Alexandria to Egypt
1 infantry moved from Alexandria to Egypt
1 artillery moved from Alexandria to Egypt
1 armour moved from Quebec to 106 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Quebec to 106 Sea Zone
1 artillery moved from Ontario to Quebec
1 infantry moved from Ontario to Quebec
1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 106 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone
1 armour and 1 infantry moved from 109 Sea Zone to United Kingdom
1 transport moved from 109 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to Scotland
Place Units - British
1 bomber, 1 fighter and 2 infantry placed in United Kingdom
Turn Complete - British
British collect 30 PUs; end with 30 PUs
Objective British 1 Original: British met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 35 PUs
Place Units - UK_Pacific
3 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys placed in India
Turn Complete - UK_Pacific
UK_Pacific collect 17 PUs; end with 17 PUs
Objective UK Pacific 2 Kwangtung And Malaya: UK_Pacific met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 22 PUs
Some Units in India change ownership: 3 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
Combat Hit Differential Summary :
Germans : -0.83
British : 0.00
Italians : -1.00
Japanese : -0.33
I can see I have made a few errors in my moves. I’m still getting to grips with playing against a real person! :roll: :-D
It’ll be interesting to see how this develops. Hopefully I can redeem myself later in the game, assuming you haven’t obliterated me in the mean time. :-P
Nothing to do with the game but when I was perusing various threads, I came across this. Haven’t laughed so hard or out loud for ages… :-D
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=6689.msg306751#msg306751