Ya but an AAA gun gets to shoot at a non combat plane. So rule is cant fly over any aaa guns period without getting shot at. Thats my rule. Plus the cost of plane should be no less than 10 icp if its going to do all that it can do.
I Getcha Arghotair :-D
The move 4 though is, idk to me. Loading and ( to a lesser extent ) unloading seem like they shouldn’t be counted as moves.
Anyway Good to talk to you : ) Not trying to be challenging : )
It’s a good point that air transports shouldn’t be so advantageous that they render naval transports obsolete. A good approach to solving this problem when devising the unit statistics and other features of the house-ruled air transport (relative to the ones for the existing naval transport) would be to apply the following principles from real-life WWII, so that each unit has advantages and disadvantages:
Advantages of ships over airplanes:
Greater cargo-carrying capacity, both in terms of sheer volume and in terms of being able to carry objects (like WWII heavy tanks) too heavy for planes.
Are cheaper to operate, in terms of dollars-per-tonnage carried. (This is why sending packages from America to Europe by surface mail is cheaper but slower than sending them by airmail.)
Can put regular infantry, or house-ruled Marine units, ashore during amphibious operations.
In some circumstances, can operate across longer (meaning trans-oceanic) ranges, though this depends on multiple factors.
Advantages of airplanes over ships:
Faster.
Can deliver payloads directly to inland (i.e. non-coastal) territories, which ships can’t.
Can air-drop paratroopers into friendly or hostile territories (paratroops have the advantage of being able to make surprise attacks on high-value targets behind enemy lines, but have the disadvantage of being more lightly armed than ground troops and of not being able to engage in prolonged combat without relief from ground troops).
@CWO:
It’s a good point that air transports shouldn’t be so advantageous that they render naval transports obsolete. A good approach to solving this problem when devising the unit statistics and other features of the house-ruled air transport (relative to the ones for the existing naval transport) would be to apply the following principles from real-life WWII, so that each unit has advantages and disadvantages:
Advantages of ships over airplanes:
Greater cargo-carrying capacity, both in terms of sheer volume and in terms of being able to carry objects (like WWII heavy tanks) too heavy for planes.
Are cheaper to operate, in terms of dollars-per-tonnage carried. (This is why sending packages from America to Europe by surface mail is cheaper but slower than sending them by airmail.)
Can put regular infantry, or house-ruled Marine units, ashore during amphibious operations.
In some circumstances, can operate across longer (meaning trans-oceanic) ranges, though this depends on multiple factors.
Advantages of airplanes over ships:
Faster.
Can deliver payloads directly to inland (i.e. non-coastal) territories, which ships can’t.
Can air-drop paratroopers into friendly or hostile territories (paratroops have the advantage of being able to make surprise attacks on high-value targets behind enemy lines, but have the disadvantage of being more lightly armed than ground troops and of not being able to engage in prolonged combat without relief from ground troops).
Thats is why I have air transport plane costing 10 icps.
Plane C10 2 inf C6 = 16
Plane C10 1 AA C5 = 15
Plane C10 1 Art C4 = 14
Plane C10 1 para C4 = 14
Tran C7 2 Inf C6 = 13
Tran C7 1 inf 1 tank C9 = 16
Tran C7 1 inf 1 art C7 = 14
Tran C7 1 inf 1 AA = 16
Tran C7 2 Elite C8 = 15
Transport still the go to piece as far as quantity and plane for quick drops but still need to land.
If transports cost 8 then raise plane cost to 11 or 12
I may have to raise my plane cost to 12 in game due to trans costing 8 and each country starts with a Air Transport Plane.
Here is a ruleset that requires no extra units (e.g. commando/elite) or technology.
Air Transport:
Type: Air unit
Cost: 12
Move: 5 (can use airbases for bonus)
Attack: 0
Defense: 0
Air transports may not scramble, intercept, escort, or bomb. They are not allowed to attack Sea Zones or land on carriers. An air transport may attack a territory if it is paratrooping infantry there in the combat move phase. While in combat, an air transport rolls no dice but may be taken as a casuality any time. Air transports are subject to AA gun fire.
During the noncombat movement phase, an air transport may carry up to two land units (one must be an infantry and no tanks are allowed) to any territory that has been in friendly control since the beginning of your turn. The air transport must end its movement in the territory it offloads to. The air transport may also hold its cargo until the next turn, but in such case the units being held cannot fight and die if the plane dies. Friendly units may use air transports of another nation by following a three step process:
1. Loading units onto the plane
2. Having the plane be moved on your teammate’s turn
3. Offloading your units
Paratroopers:
Air transports may attack a territory by flying in paratroopers. Paratroopers are standard infantry. If there are any friendly units on board an air transport (e.g. a French troop on a British plane), those units may not participate in paratrooper attacks. Paratroopers may work in coordination with amphibious assaults and/or overland invasions. Paratrooper attacks follow this order:
1. Load infantry onto air transport
2. Fly to territory (the air transport must have moves left to land elsewhere)
3. Parachute your attacking paratroopers
4. Receive AA fire against your air transport (the paratroopers are able to survive a loss of the plane)
Paratroopers get a +1 attack (two or less) on the first round of combat.
No. Not KISS. Facilities to big to damage for a paratrooper. Cost of plane to low to carry 1 inf and 1 non inf. I would rather attack a base with commandos elite unit thats what there there for from a transport then to get my plane shot down.
Deleting the commando thing and adjusting the price to twevle, would you consider this a good base line? Perhaps the ability to withdraw the paratroopers is too overkill, or maybe letting AA shoot down the craft before the paratroopers offload is too dicey?
@Charles:
Deleting the commando thing and adjusting the price to twevle, would you consider this a good base line? Perhaps the ability to withdraw the paratroopers is too overkill, or maybe letting AA shoot down the craft before the paratroopers offload is too dicey?
Delete the base raids for now. Plane cost 12 if u want it to do the rest but no advance after landing and no special other plane stuff u had written down. Plane can be shot down at any move with aa gun. Try play test with
A T Plane
A0
D0
M5 +1 AB
C12
2 inf
1 inf 1 aa gun
1 inf 1 art
2 para troopers +1 FROC only
2 Elite C5 ea +1 AROC
Its simple. Seems to me the aa gun could be very nice piece to transport.
As stated cant have the plane more powerful than the naval transport also.
Most wont even want this in game. You can always tweak it.
I do like your air naval base raids though using air drops. I just think a 6 dam is to high for an inf group on a large facility. ILL be thinking on that idea. Maybe 1 D6 roll and take half ? For me Id rather use d8 10 12s in games. More of a risk factor of being rewarded with accuracy.
But I think you also need elite forces to damage those bases to.
2 elite = 1d6 +2
For my game be 2 elite = 1d10 more risk to do being counter attacked.
I too have trouble imagining a small group of armed men inflicting crippling damage on a large (and presumably well-guarded) military base. If that sort of thing was feasible, we would have seen operations of that type happening every week during WWII. In the world of fiction, the 1943 movie Crash Dive depicts a small US commando force – a group of submariners, in fact – destroying a secret German naval base on an island which appears to be located somewhere in the middle of the North Atlantic, but this is a film that’s hard to take seriously: it’s 50% comedic shore romance and 50% action-adventure sea combat; one of the commandos who raids the island is an elderly sailor with a heart condition (he mows down half a dozen Germans with a Tommy gun, at one point); and it should be noted that in the real world there aren’t actually any islands (German-occupied or otherwise) in the middle of the North Atlantic.
For a good example of the workings of a real WWII commando operation (complete with heavy losses among the commandos) aimed at a high-value target, have a look at the Wikipedia entry on Operation Flipper, the unsuccessful 1941 British attempt to assassinate Rommel at his HQ, or watch the opening minutes of the James Mason film The Desert Fox.
Thanks CWO. Then scrap my thoughts on base raids in above post. Thought there was more raid type attacks in war. Still like it though. Maybe give the UK an event card saying can do a 1 time commando raid on something in game. Roll 1 d8 damage against any enemy facility on game map.
Reminds me of an old movie called “The Devil’s Brigade”. A combined US/Canadian commando unit that was formed. Fun movie, but as CWO points out, probably not considered the norm, yet alone something worth showing in a strategic level game such as this.
There is only one problem…I have no sculpt to represent the air transport. I have been adding house rules and playing games I don’t even own very cheaply…but now what?
@Charles:
There is only one problem…I have no sculpt to represent the air transport. I have been adding house rules and playing games I don’t even own very cheaply…but now what?
I do have the air transport planes for each country and guys still cant figure out what there for. So I painted each wing ends with white accr paint so they can tell know there air transport planes. They stand out good. Paint removes easily with your finger nail.
If you have bombers then put a piece of white sticky paper dots or strips on wings. Then just peel off sticky paper at end of game.
I used to do that for planes and para troopers in the days before.
@SS:
@Charles:
There is only one problem…I have no sculpt to represent the air transport. I have been adding house rules and playing games I don’t even own very cheaply…but now what?
I do have the air transport planes for each country and guys still cant figure out what there for. So I painted each wing ends with white accr paint so they can tell know there air transport planes. They stand out good. Paint removes easily with your finger nail.
If you have bombers then put a piece of white sticky paper dots or strips on wings. Then just peel off sticky paper at end of game.
I used to do that for planes and para troopers in the days before.
Using white sticky dots or a dab of acrylic paint are excellent and low cost solutions. If someone is looking to spend the moolah to get transport aircraft sculpts for all their powers, might I recommend the following selections?
Germany: Ju-52 Transport - www.historicalboardgaming.com/Battle-Pieces–German-Exp–Ju-52-Transport-Plane-x5_p_1366.html
Soviet Union: Yak-6 Transport - http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/Battle-Pieces–Russia-Early-War–Yak-6-Air-Transport-x5_p_1150.html
Japan: Either use G8N Ritas as transports, or as bombers with G4M Bettys for transports. - http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/Battle-Pieces–Japanese-Supp–G8N-Rita-HVY-Bomber-x5_p_1626.html
United Kingdom: good old American C-46 Transports - http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/Battle-Pieces–Allies–C-46-Transport-x5_p_1172.html
ANZAC: good old American C-46 Transports - http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/Battle-Pieces–Allies–C-46-Transport-x5_p_1172.html
Italy: either brown Russian Yak-6s or SM-79 Transport Bombers from IWNGU/FMG - http://iwillnevergrowup.com/shop/FMG_ACCESSORIES?product_id=292
United States: good old American C-46 Transports - http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/Battle-Pieces–Allies–C-46-Transport-x5_p_1172.html
China: either celery green C-46s or yellow green Fokker TV Bombers as transports- - http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/Battle-Pieces–Neutrals–Fokker-TV-Medium-Bomber-x5_p_785.html
France: either blue C-46s or blue Fokker TV Bombers as transports- - http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/Battle-Pieces–Neutrals–Fokker-TV-Medium-Bomber-x5_p_785.html
I think that covers everybody who might conceivably need or use one and then some.
-Midnight_Reaper
What I miss is a blockhouse, or fortification unit. At the start of WWII that was the main unit. France had the Maginot line, wich forced Germany to attack through Belgium, Finland had the Mannerheim line, making one million attacking Russians lose to 250 000 dug in Finns, Greece had the Metaxa line, making the Italian army lose that campaign, at the Pacific there were strong forts like at Singapore and Corregidore. Russia had the famous fortress at Sevastopol on Crime. Germany made the Atlantic Wall, and Festnung Norwegen, and the Gustav line in Italy, that with Monte Casino, I would love to see that in a game. But I cant, because most of the players, and designers, want offensive units, like Tanks, Heavy Tanks, and more Tanks. But, how can a medium tank be radically different from a Heavy Tank ? Its not. A tank is a tank. But a new Blockhouse unit, that would offer a new kind of units, a defansive unit with very good protection, like it absorb a lot of hits before it dies, and with strong firepower too, like a first preemptive shot against the attacker.
I could add, I would love to see a Zombie unit, but as it turns out, that is actually going to happen, this fall, so I guess I am in luck.
What I miss is a blockhouse, or fortification unit.
Here is a rule to consider:
Fortifications are permanent structures that can be purchased for placement up to 1 per territory. The fortification’s main purpose is to absorb hits. They are never destroyed and but they can be captured. Procedure: Cost 12 IPC. The fortification takes up to 6 hits max by combat or strategic bombing. During normal combat, when hits are allocated, they can take every other hit, starting with the first up to their max of 6, after that all hits are taken normally. If all units in the territory are eliminated before the max on the fort, then all remaining hits are applied to the fortification. During a strategic bomb raid, the fortification would take all hits incurred, however the die result is divided by 2 (rounded up). Fortifications do NOT get an AA roll against strategic bombing (unless there is a radar station - optional rule). Damage can be repaired, cost 1 IPC per damage point.
Greece had the Metaxa line, making the Italian army lose that campaign
Actually, the Metaxas line didn’t play a factor in the Italian campaign. It was along the Greek-Bulgarian border. Greece actually found a hostile Bulgaria to be their biggest threat. It was a bit more useful than the Maginot Line was (there is an interesting aside when Germany assaulted it, where a Greek garrison continued to hold out against the Germans. The local German commander was so impressed that he awarded them full surrender rights, and, if I’m not mistaken, allowed them to keep their weapons), but was largely abandoned once the Greeks pulled back way too early against the Italians to the north and west in Albania.
Regardless, I definitely understand your point, a fortification would have been a very interesting unit to have shown in the OOB game!
NWO has a cool Bunker unit.
I have it at A0 D3 2 hit C5. Can only place one per round. Can only place up to territory level ( so 3 TT only can have 3 total ). All TT’s get at least 1
Also require infantry to be present to build and repair.
NWO has a cool Bunker unit.
{snip}
And NWO would be what, exactly? Curious Minds Want to Know…
-Midnight_Reaper
