Dow grows 1300 in 8 years

[cyan]

@Cmdr:

BTW, that’s 8131 in 2003 to 13043 in 2007.  5000 points in 4 years or just over 1000 a year.  I’d prefer 1000 a month, but to be realistic, the DOW’s been around longer then the Progressive Era and it’s ONLY gotten to 14,000 max.  That’s 110 years abouts or 127 points a year on average.  So I guess 1000 points per annum isn’t so bad after all.

I’d rather have a 100 piont increae in a 500 piont stock market than a 1000 piont growth in a 10000 piont market.

[Jennifer]

@cyan:

@Cmdr:

BTW, that’s 8131 in 2003 to 13043 in 2007.  5000 points in 4 years or just over 1000 a year.  I’d prefer 1000 a month, but to be realistic, the DOW’s been around longer then the Progressive Era and it’s ONLY gotten to 14,000 max.  That’s 110 years abouts or 127 points a year on average.  So I guess 1000 points per annum isn’t so bad after all.

I’d rather have a 100 piont increae in a 500 piont stock market than a 1000 piont growth in a 10000 piont market.

Yes, but since none of us are 120 years old, none of us had that chance.

I’d also like to point out that the Great Depression and Black Monday was only a mere couple/few hundred points that dropped.  We saw larger on days after the election of 2000, on the days around 9/11 (trading was frozen for a time, or we may have seen a few thousand points drop ON 9/11), and in various other politically, economically, and blue moonish days throughout history.

Playing the market is a gamble.  I happen to make money in both bull markets and bear markets because I know how to invest.  Some people do not so they lose everything when they make bad decisions.  So what?  Every American is a Have, there are no Have Not Americans.  Even if you lose it all in the Market, you can still get a job and build it all back up.  That’s what makes it great to be in this country!

BTW, my personal best week was last week.  I made 27% on my investments and the market dropped like 1000 points.

[cyan]

Tell that to the people on wellfaer. also tell that to the people who jumped out of skyscrapers on black monday. America does have “have-nots”

[Jennifer]

@cyan:

Tell that to the people on wellfaer. also tell that to the people who jumped out of skyscrapers on black monday. America does have “have-nots”

People may assume they are have nots.  But they are not.  All citizens have the same rights and laws.  All citizens have the opportunity to pursue happiness, some of us fail abysmally at achieving happiness, and some of us give up.  But that does not mean they are have nots.  It just means they gave up or have not learned the skills.

I work with classes with middle class kids and lower class kids and I’m telling you, they’re kids.  Some of them develop the right skills, and some do not.  But that doesn’t mean some are haves and some are have nots.  All are haves.  They are all equal to each other in value as human beings.

As for suicide, rich people and poor people commit suicide.  So that is not a very good indicator of haves and have nots.

I guess one could argue that a convicted felon in jail is a have not.  But that’s not because s/he started as a have not but rather made poor choices and learned poor skills resulting in society removing their have status for a period of time as punishment.

In summary, all Americans are Haves.  There are no Americans who are Have Nots.  If you think you are a have not, talk to someone you think is a have and learn what they learned to become what YOU consider a have.

You think I was born knowing how to invest in bull and bear markets?  Shoot son, I was born in Russia, we had never HAD stock markets!  I didn’t learn it in school, I didn’t learn it from mom and dad.  I saw people I thought had more Havingness then I did and asked them to teach me.  I want more havingness, but I am a have.  Everyone is a HAVE!

[trihero]

That was beautiful Jen…

[Jennifer]

@Bean:

That was beautiful Jen…

At the risk of finding out, beautiful good or beautiful bad? (In your individual opinion. :P  In my individual opinion I think I summed up the entire American culture, spirit and way of life.)

[cyan]

why do we need social programs and chiarites then? its a lot harder to be a have if you grew up in teh projects and never owned a dollar untill you were 18 than if your father is bill gates. nay way i think we have defierant defintions of haves and have nots. my definstion are those that do not have. as in they are poo, destitute without the ability to feed and warmth there family.

[trihero]

Beautiful good.  :-)

If I were being sarcastic I would make a point of not being misinterpreted.

[Jennifer]

@cyan:

why do we need social programs and chiarites then? its a lot harder to be a have if you grew up in teh projects and never owned a dollar untill you were 18 than if your father is bill gates. nay way i think we have defierant defintions of haves and have nots. my definstion are those that do not have. as in they are poo, destitute without the ability to feed and warmth there family.

Oh yea, it was so peachy growing up in the slums of communist Russia.  I just had everything given to me on a silver spoon.  Sorry, I forgot that part of my life….you know, the part where I was given everything including a free download of information right into my skull so I wouldn’t have to learn anything.

We don’t NEED social programs.  I’d even argue that social programs do more to KEEP people from achieving more havingness then anything else.

Lineage also has no bearing.  John Rockefeller became someone with exceedingly strong havingness despite growing up in the slums.  So did many people.  This entire nation was built by people who thought they were have nots and attempted to become haves.  There was no social programs for them, there were charities, they were called Church.  They lived in their version of the projects (a backwater colony exceedingly far from civilization inhabited by murderous natives (or so they thought.))

America has no have nots, even by your definition.  Even if you are completely without physical possessions in this nation, you have your life and the skills you learned during it.  You have the ability to go to a shelter to go to a soup kitchen to go to a free medical clinic.  Your have nots live like kings compared to the have nots of other countries, my friend.  There were no free medical clinics in Kiev with good doctors in them like here.  Not while I lived there!  The GOOD doctors (aka the ones who didn’t try to rape or molest you each visit and actually owned a medical book, maybe even read it once or twice) all worked for the politicians/police/military.  Though, every home was a soup kitchen, we couldn’t afford anything BUT SOUP.  I hate friggin soup!

You know your poor in this nation average two color television sets and a car!  Your POOR!  The low lifes, the ones you are telling me are have nots.  They have televisions and cars!  I lived on a flat with three other families and our television was ourselves acting out plays in the dirt and kicking the bugs around.  Don’t even tell me about how bad Americans have it.  It will fall on deaf ears here.  I’ve seen more trials and tribulations then most Americans can even think about.  And what’s worse, there are countries that thought I lived like a queen because once a week I got 4 ounces of meat as my allotment from the government.

All Americans are Haves.  There are no Americans that are have nots.  None.  Not a single one.  The mentally insane guy in the sanatorium with no family who thinks bugs are trying to eat his testicles but has American citizenship is a Have.  Why?  Because he has citizenship, that means he owns the government in part.  That means he has someone in office looking out for him.  He has a medical system of trained doctors and nurses who provide nourishment and shelter every day of every week until he dies.  It may not be the best shelter and nourishment, but he still HAS it making him a HAVE, not a have not.

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@Bean:

Beautiful good.  :-)

If I were being sarcastic I would make a point of not being misinterpreted.

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Then I thank you. :)  Just with the bickering in another thread tween us, I wanted clarification. No offense intended.

[balungaloaf]

people make terrible decisions in life cyan.  you can choose in highschool to take mass amounts of drugs, get horrible grades, not get accepted to a college, continue to take drugs, and not be able to hold a job.  then you need welfare.  at least half of the people on welfare have only themselves to blame for their problems.

and if you grow up in the projects, who’s to keep you from getting a job.  find one at the Mcdonalds, its a start.  then take highschool SERIOUSLY and get out of the projects by going to college.  then never come back to the projects.  just b/c people dont this, there’s not someone/something to blame.  only themselves.

trust me, at my age of 22, i know i could have done my highschool and college a lot differently.  like actually play rugby and such.  i just never got around to it.  i could of joined a frat, boned a lot of sorority girls,  just b/c that didnt happen doesnt mean there is anyone to blame.

jen is saying all americans are haves b/c ALL americans have the same OPPORTUNITY.  sadly and truly, many squander theirs.

[balungaloaf]

oh yeah, Gupta, the owner of InfoUsa, started in a freakin garage w/ an idea.  he’s a billionaire now.

[cyan]

everyone has oppurinty I just feel like some have it easier than others. like certian brats doing drugs their whole live and leaving out of mommy’s and daddy’s pockett book. this discussion reminds me or pursuit of happiness. its a really good movie. but what about all the homeles that live in places like in NEw york . I would say thier have nots.

[Smacktard]

the problem with just looking at the post-9/11 post recession recoevry of the dow is that its short term thinking. Had the dow dropped to 2,000, then rebounded back to 4,000, jen would probably declare it a victory (its more than doubled its value!). looking at the picture long-term, it would be a disaster. long-term views lead to different conclusions:

historically the dow averages 9% growth. from the peak of the bull market of the 90s (11700), the dow has done horribly. its grown 1% in the LAST EIGHT YEARS.

Now part of that is a natural corection to an artifical run-up during the 90’s. but as NCS pointed out, there are fundamentals of the econonmy that are troubling. if we want to look short-term, as Jen likes to:
DOW near end of 2003: 11,000
DOW near end of 2007: 13,000
16% growth over a 4 year period. well below the historic 9% growth rate per year.

and the dow is only one component of the picyture. Median income still hasn’t recoverd from 1999. thats far more telling than how the corporate world is doing. offhand, I cant think of a time period where median income has been stagnant for such a long period of time (8 years). maybe during the late 70’s-early 80’s? that is troubling for a consumer driven economy like ours, with housing collapsing and gas skyrocketing.

Balung, youre 22. I was voting for Reagan before you were born. grow a little chest hair before you question my belifs.

As a side note, isnt intetersting how everyone on the internet is as good as Warren Buffet, but in real life most people carry thousands in credit card debt and cant balance a checkbook? funny how that is.

[cyan]

shouldn’t judge people on there age smacktard. ( if you knew my age you’d spit at whatever i said) judge people on thier abilities not anything else and all that type jazz.  but teh dow has been growing pretty slowly. but the stock market that isn’t the mst troubling but I think cost of living is going to sky rocket while wages stay the same.  I think switch said this allready talking about how the dollar is falling and affecting everything else.

[Smacktard]

Another whippersnapper mouths off. Jk  :lol: you’;re right. still a 22 yr old has only lived in the real world a short while. theres much to learn young jedi.

The dollar is a mjor concern. did you see the Canadian dollar passed us up? we NEED countries to buy our bonds & fund our extravagent spending. if they start dumping dollars, were screwed.

I was glancing through the have/ have not discussion. 25% of the homeless are vets.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,309416,00.html
unbelievble that we would let our veterans down in such a way. i guess they should have invested in the market.

[Imperious Leader]

Isn’t this a political discussion? :mrgreen:

[trihero]

Just to keep it light…

YO MOMMA’S a political discussion  :-o

[Jennifer]

@Smacktard:

the problem with just looking at the post-9/11 post recession recoevry of the dow is that its short term thinking. Had the dow dropped to 2,000, then rebounded back to 4,000, jen would probably declare it a victory (its more than doubled its value!). looking at the picture long-term, it would be a disaster. long-term views lead to different conclusions:

historically the dow averages 9% growth. from the peak of the bull market of the 90s (11700), the dow has done horribly. its grown 1% in the LAST EIGHT YEARS.

Now part of that is a natural corection to an artifical run-up during the 90’s. but as NCS pointed out, there are fundamentals of the econonmy that are troubling. if we want to look short-term, as Jen likes to:
DOW near end of 2003: 11,000
DOW near end of 2007: 13,000
16% growth over a 4 year period. well below the historic 9% growth rate per year.

and the dow is only one component of the picyture. Median income still hasn’t recoverd from 1999. thats far more telling than how the corporate world is doing. offhand, I cant think of a time period where median income has been stagnant for such a long period of time (8 years). maybe during the late 70’s-early 80’s? that is troubling for a consumer driven economy like ours, with housing collapsing and gas skyrocketing.

Balung, youre 22. I was voting for Reagan before you were born. grow a little chest hair before you question my belifs.

As a side note, isnt intetersting how everyone on the internet is as good as Warren Buffet, but in real life most people carry thousands in credit card debt and cant balance a checkbook? funny how that is.

You’re making a false premise here.  Historical averages, as I tried to point out, cannot be made equal to each other over long periods of time in regards to the Stock Market.  Only actual points can.  8% of $100 is only $8.  Anyone can make $8 just by working for 1 hour in Illinois!  8% of 10,000 is $800!  That’s significantly more money!  The same $8 of the original 100 is 8% but against the 10,000 it’s only 0.08%!

So to slam the current market because it’s growth in points is ONLY 10 times what the average is over the life of the program is just plain silly!  You have to look at the actual numbers of grown just as you would your actual dollars in your bill fold.  I don’t care if you made 20% profit on the dollar you had yesterday!  But if you made 1000 dollars on 10,000 dollars you had yesterday, that’s a lot more!  Sure, percentage wise you made 20% on a dollar vs 10% on 10,000 dollars, but the actual take home is significantly more on the 10,000 then the 1.

Anyway, I never claimed to be Warren Buffet or as good as him.  I have 0 in credit card debt because I only carry one card (max is $300) for use establishing revolving credit history.  Anyone who carries more credit card debt then they earn in a week is stupid.  (I make more then $300 a week obviously, but I don’t spend more then $300 on gas and oil changes a week, which is all the card is used for.)

Investing in the market is also not brain surgery.  Just apply some forward thinking.  Not to get into politics, but if certain politicians appear to be winning the Presidency, leading us towards nationalized health care, then I wouldn’t recommend buying stock in pharmaceutical companies.  If someone’s getting elected and is pounding the lectern at every event rallying the nation to go to war, maybe you should purchase defense industry stocks.

Things I don’t invest in anymore (because they do worse then what I do invest in!) are gold and oil.  They’re near their cap and could fall at any minute.  All President Bush and the Democratic Congress, has to do is get a bill passed opening up the Gulf or Alaska to domestic companies to drill and the price of oil per gallon can realistically fall 30-45% over night.  That’s a lot of risk if you ask me.  Hearing aids, long term, low risk.  With people blowing loud music directly through ear buds into their ears loud enough to drown out train horns resulting in their death, hearing aids are gunna be huge business.

Just apply some common sense and do NOT follow the crowd.  People who follow the crowd buy high and sell low.  (They sell when the crowd moves on, meaning no demand anymore.)

[balungaloaf]

ugh, the dollar is being depreciated on purpose everyone. to reset the trade imbalance.

didnt anyone notice that with our cheap dollar, our exports are becoming bargains(like china), and our trade deficit is the best its ever been.  and that means more people keep their manufacturing jobs here.

there’s always a second glance to see what else is going on.

[Jennifer]

Interesting theory, Balung.  I’m not a subscriber to it, yet, need more details.  But it’s interesting.

Also by forcing all the debt right offs before the bankruptcy law changes it removed a lot of profit from the creditors which probably did a lot of devalue the dollar.  No confidence behind it with all the bankruptcies. :P