G40L17 Karl7 (Axis) v Amon Sul (Allies) R.2

[Amon-Sul]

@Karl7:

The issue is: a sea zone only with defending subs is not a hostile sea zone.  You could only  make it hostile by keep the destroyer present OR by scrambling.  The Italian deprived you of both options.

i doubt it.

u can not land if i have subs (and u dont have des) its against the rules

[Amon-Sul]

@Karl7:

@Amon-Sul:

**wait,

U could not attack London from sz 110

u could attack only from sz 111

u should face my subs if wanting to attack London from sz 110

please redo it. (move your transports and cruiser to sz 111)**

I can ignore a sz only with subs in it.  That’s why I had to take out your airbase.

Lordcurtmungus’s login sometimes pops up in my log in and i forget to clear it. Sorry.

ur alter ego? ;)

[Karl7]

I am sure of this.  I will find rule for you. Hold on.

[Karl7]

Subs alone do not make a sea zone hostile.  I can ignore them when making an amphibious assault.  I need only 1 combat ship to accompany, not a destroyer.

Here are quotes from the rule book:

Sea Zones
Sea zones are either friendly or hostile. Friendly sea zones contain no surface warships (this doesn’t include
submarines and transports) belonging to a power with which you are at war. Hostile sea zones contain surface warships
belonging to a power with which you are at war. (The presence of a surface warship
belonging to an enemy power with which you are not yet at war doesn’t make a sea
zone hostile.)

Step 1. Sea Combat
If there are defending surface warships and/or scrambled
air units, sea combat occurs. If there are only defending
submarines and/or transports, the attacker can choose to
ignore those units or conduct sea combat.
If sea combat occurs, all attacking and defending sea
units present must participate in the battle. (Even if the
attacker chose to ignore defending submarines and/or
transports, they will still be involved in the battle if the
defender scrambles air units and forces a sea battle.)
Conduct the sea combat using the rules for General
Combat (below), then go to step 3 (land combat).

However, a transport
is not allowed to offload land units for an amphibious
assault in a sea zone containing 1 or more ignored enemy
submarines unless at least 1 warship belonging to the
attacking power is also present in the sea zone at the end
of the Combat Move phase.

[Karl7]

I my case i had a cruiser, so I chose to ignore the subs.

[Amon-Sul]

i am not saying it is not it, it just seems ode.

so, i can not defend with my subs, but if i can scramble then i can?

how realistic is that?

and what if u had transports only (without cruiser)?

[Karl7]

@Amon-Sul:

i am not saying it is not it, it just seems ode.

so, i can not defend with my subs, but if i can scramble then i can?

how realistic is that?

and what if u had transports only (without cruiser)?

If you could scram, the subs could defend. But Italy knocked out your airbase.

If I had transports only, I could not attack.

I guess the “idea” behind this is that WWII subs are not stand alone defensive weapon systems.  Their ability is stealth attack, not area defense.

[Amon-Sul]

i think that i had somewhere in my ear that a transport can not attack if the defender has subs.

but it says, the transport which is alone or with air only? and what if u had subs with transport but not cruiser?

[Karl7]

@Amon-Sul:

i think that i had somewhere in my ear that a transport can not attack if the defender has subs.

but it says, the transport which is alone or with air only? and what if u had subs with transport but not cruiser?

The rule is a lone transport cannot conduct amphibious assault if there is an enemy sub.  But if the transport has a warships with it, which would include a sub, then is can offload the units and ignore the enemy sub.

[Gargantua]

Karl is correct - you only need an “escort” and you can choose to ignore enemy subs.  Like you can choose to ignore enemy transports if you want.

It was a good thought Amon!  If his Italian bomber had not made it through you might have survived… alas… this is not the case now.

[Amon-Sul]

the problem is not that he took london.

the problem is that he took it with 20 units.

not sure if i can come back after this

[Amon-Sul]

i forgot to pull out subs in sz 110

ignore the dices that will come

i am pullin them all out

[Amon-Sul]

and the dices score 4 hits for subs  :-o

[Amon-Sul]

Game History

Round: 3

Purchase Units - Americans
            Americans buy 1 carrier, 1 destroyer, 1 harbour, 1 submarine and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Politics - Americans
            Trigger Americans War Production Eastern: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Eastern United States
            Trigger Americans War Production Western: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Western United States
            Trigger Americans War Production Central: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Central United States
            Trigger Americans War Production Eastern: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Eastern United States
            Trigger Americans War Production Western: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Western United States
            Trigger Americans War Production Central: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Central United States

Combat Move - Americans
            Trigger Americans Unrestricted Movement: Setting movementRestrictionTerritories cleared  for rulesAttachment attached to Americans
            1 submarine moved from 26 Sea Zone to 16 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Western United States to 16 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from Hawaiian Islands to 16 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 54 Sea Zone to 21 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from Hawaiian Islands to 26 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 26 Sea Zone to 32 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 32 Sea Zone to Marshall Islands
            2 infantry moved from Hawaiian Islands to 26 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 26 Sea Zone to 17 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 17 Sea Zone to Iwo Jima

Combat - Americans
            Battle in 21 Sea Zone
                Americans attack with 1 submarine
                Japanese defend with 1 transport
                Americans win with 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 transport
            Battle in Marshall Islands
            Battle in Iwo Jima
            Battle in 16 Sea Zone
                Americans attack with 1 bomber, 2 fighters and 1 submarine
                Japanese defend with 1 destroyer
                Americans win, taking Marshall Islands from Japanese, taking Iwo Jima from Japanese with 1 bomber, 2 fighters and 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 destroyer

Non Combat Move - Americans
            1 bomber and 2 fighters moved from 16 Sea Zone to Midway
            3 marines moved from Hawaiian Islands to 26 Sea Zone
            1 battleship, 1 carrier, 2 cruisers, 2 destroyers, 1 fighter, 3 marines and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 26 Sea Zone to 64 Sea Zone
            1 mech_infantry moved from Central United States to 101 Sea Zone
            1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 101 Sea Zone to 86 Sea Zone
            1 mech_infantry moved from 86 Sea Zone to Brazil
                  Americans take Brazil from Neutral_Allies
            1 submarine moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 101 Sea Zone to 103 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 101 Sea Zone to 104 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 101 Sea Zone to 108 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 1 marine moved from Central United States to 101 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 3 infantry, 1 marine and 3 transports moved from 101 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 1 marine moved from 106 Sea Zone to Quebec
            1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from Central United States to Eastern United States
            2 aaGuns moved from Western United States to Central United States
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Western United States to Central United States
            1 destroyer moved from 54 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 10 Sea Zone to 30 Sea Zone

Place Units - Americans
            1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 transport placed in 101 Sea Zone
            1 submarine placed in 10 Sea Zone
            1 harbour placed in Southeast Mexico

Turn Complete - Americans
            Americans collect 53 PUs; end with 53 PUs total
            Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 58 PUs
            Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 63 PUs
            Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 73 PUs

Purchase Units - Chinese
            Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
            Chinese buy 4 infantry; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;

Combat Move - Chinese
            1 infantry moved from Chahar to Jehol
                  Chinese take Jehol from Japanese
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Kweichow to Hunan
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Kweichow to Yunnan
            1 fighter and 2 infantry moved from Kweichow to Anhwe

Combat - Chinese
            Battle in Hunan
                Chinese attack with 1 artillery and 1 infantry
                Japanese defend with 1 artillery
                Chinese win, taking Hunan from Japanese with 1 artillery remaining. Battle score for attacker is 1
                Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 artillery
            Battle in Yunnan
                Chinese attack with 1 artillery and 1 infantry
                Japanese defend with 1 infantry
                Chinese win, taking Yunnan from Japanese with 1 artillery remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
            Battle in Anhwe
                Chinese attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry
                Japanese defend with 1 infantry
                Chinese win, taking Anhwe from Japanese with 1 fighter and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Chinese
            1 fighter moved from Anhwe to Sikang
            1 infantry moved from Kweichow to Hunan

Place Units - Chinese
            1 infantry placed in Chahar
            3 infantry placed in Kweichow

Turn Complete - Chinese
            Chinese collect 13 PUs; end with 15 PUs total
            Objective Chinese 1 Burma Road: Chinese met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 18 PUs

Purchase Units - UK_Pacific
            UK_Pacific buy 1 bomber and 1 marine; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - British
            1 destroyer moved from 119 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Egypt to 99 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 80 Sea Zone to 99 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Shan State to Siam
                  UK_Pacific take Siam from Japanese
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Quebec to 106 Sea Zone

Combat - British
            British creates battle in territory 110 Sea Zone
            Battle in 110 Sea Zone
                British attack with 4 submarines
                Germans defend with 1 cruiser, 3 destroyers and 11 transports
                British win with 2 submarines remaining. Battle score for attacker is 101
                Casualties for Germans: 1 cruiser, 3 destroyers and 11 transports
                Casualties for British: 2 submarines
            Battle in 99 Sea Zone
                British attack with 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers
                Italians defend with 1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 2 transports
                Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Italians
                British win with 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 33
                Casualties for British: 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber
                Casualties for Italians: 1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 2 transports
            Battle in 112 Sea Zone
                British attack with 1 destroyer
                Germans defend with 1 submarine
                British win with 1 destroyer remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine

Non Combat Move - British
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by British from 110 Sea Zone: 2 submarines
            EDIT: Adding units owned by British to 119 Sea Zone: 4 submarines
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            1 submarine moved from 119 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 119 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone
            EDIT: 1 submarine moved from 119 Sea Zone to 105 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 119 Sea Zone to 118 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 109 Sea Zone to 119 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 118 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 99 Sea Zone to Egypt
            1 armour moved from Kenya to Egypt
            1 mech_infantry moved from Italian Somaliland to Anglo Egyptian Sudan
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Iraq to Trans-Jordan
            1 battleship, 1 carrier, 2 cruisers and 1 destroyer moved from 80 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 38 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Burma to Shan State
            1 fighter moved from Burma to India
            1 aaGun moved from Burma to Yunnan
            4 aaGuns, 1 artillery and 9 infantry moved from Burma to Shan State
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from India to Shan State
            2 infantry moved from Persia to 80 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 80 Sea Zone to 81 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 81 Sea Zone to Egypt
            1 infantry moved from Persia to 80 Sea Zone
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 80 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 39 Sea Zone to India

Place Units - UK_Pacific
            1 bomber and 1 marine placed in India

Turn Complete - UK_Pacific
            UK_Pacific collect 11 PUs; end with 11 PUs total
            Trigger UK Pacific 4 No Enemy Submarines: UK_Pacific met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 14 PUs
            Some Units in India change ownership: 1 bomber and 1 marine

karl (Allies).tsvg

[Karl7]

uh, why didn’t my fighter scram in 110?

They would have.

I will roll them here.

Hold on.

[Amon-Sul]

@Amon-Sul:

i forgot to pull out subs in sz 110

ignore the dices that will come

i am pullin them all out

there was no combat in sz 110

[Karl7]

oh I see, yes…. duh

[Amon-Sul]

when u open the map u ll see i ve edited ur troops back

[Karl7]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.3

Game History

Round: 3

Purchase Units - Italians
            Italians buy 1 carrier; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Politics - Italians
            Italians takes Political Action: Political Action Italians To War With Chinese
                Italians succeeds on action: Political Action Italians To War With Chinese: Changing Relationship for Italians and Chinese from Neutrality to War

Combat Move - Italians
            1 armour and 2 infantry moved from Romania to Eastern Poland
            1 armour, 2 artilleries, 4 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Alexandria to Tobruk
            1 bomber moved from Holland Belgium to Eastern Poland

Combat - Italians
            Battle in Tobruk
                Italians attack with 1 armour, 2 artilleries, 4 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
                French defend with 1 infantry
                    Italians roll dice for 1 armour, 2 artilleries, 4 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Tobruk, round 2 :  2/8 hits
                    French roll dice for 1 infantry in Tobruk, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the French lost in Tobruk
                Italians win, taking Tobruk from French with 1 armour, 2 artilleries, 4 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for French: 1 infantry
            Battle in Eastern Poland
                Italians attack with 1 armour, 1 bomber and 2 infantry
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                    Italians roll dice for 1 armour, 1 bomber and 2 infantry in Eastern Poland, round 2 :  2/4 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Eastern Poland, round 2 :  1/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Italians and 1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Eastern Poland
                Italians win, taking Eastern Poland from Russians with 1 armour, 1 bomber and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Italians: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Italians
            1 bomber moved from Eastern Poland to Romania
            2 aaGuns moved from Romania to Eastern Poland
            2 fighters moved from Holland Belgium to 97 Sea Zone
            1 transport moved from 97 Sea Zone to 99 Sea Zone
            1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Crete to 99 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 99 Sea Zone to 97 Sea Zone
            1 armour and 1 infantry moved from 97 Sea Zone to Yugoslavia
            1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Northern Italy to Yugoslavia

Place Units - Italians
            1 carrier placed in 97 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - Italians
            Italians collect 12 PUs; end with 12 PUs
            Objective Italians 1 Control The Mediterranean: Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 17 PUs

triplea_40874_Ita3.tsvg

[Amon-Sul]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.3

Game History

Round: 3

Purchase Units - ANZAC
            ANZAC buy 3 submarines; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - ANZAC

Non Combat Move - ANZAC
            1 marine moved from New South Wales to 62 Sea Zone
            1 cruiser and 1 marine moved from 62 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone
            1 marine moved from 45 Sea Zone to Dutch New Guinea
                  ANZAC take Dutch New Guinea from Dutch
            2 fighters moved from Java to 39 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from New South Wales to Queensland
            1 fighter moved from Java to Queensland
            1 submarine moved from 62 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone

Place Units - ANZAC
            3 submarines placed in 62 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - ANZAC
            ANZAC collect 18 PUs; end with 18 PUs
            Trigger ANZAC 1 Control Original And Malaya: ANZAC met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 21 PUs
            Objective ANZAC 2 Control Strategic Islands: ANZAC met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 24 PUs
            Objective ANZAC 3 Pacific Supply Lines: ANZAC met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 27 PUs

Combat Move - French
            1 infantry moved from Egypt to Alexandria
                  French take Alexandria from Italians

Combat - French

Non Combat Move - French
            1 infantry moved from Tunisia to Libya
            1 infantry moved from French Equatorial Africa to Anglo Egyptian Sudan

Turn Complete - French

triplea_40874_Fre3.tsvg