AARHE 1939 map and rule files

[tekkyy]

I am sugguesting these changes.

Moutainous:
add Sinkiang, Japan, Italian East Africa, Algeria, Western Canada, Mexico

Snowy:
add Yakut, Evenki National Okrug

Terrain bonus:
defending land units’ +1 bonus in mountainous/snowy now for first cycle of combat only

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Topographic map
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/World-map-2004-cia-factbook-large-2m.jpg
Temperature map
http://www.climate-charts.com/images/world-temperature-map.png

Exisiting Mountainous:
Southern Europe, Norway, Persia, China, New Guinea, New Zealand, Gibraltar
(neutrals: Switzerland, Spain, Turkey, Afghanistan, Mongolia, Peru, Argentina)

Exisitng Snowy:
Soviet Far East, Alaska, Greenland

Existing Terrain Bonus:
defending land units’ +1 bonus in mountainous/snow all cycles of combat

Dicussion with Jen and Cyan.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=11016.0

[Imperious Leader]

Those seem fine except Japan and Italian East Africa.

IN both cases they are stronger but at least Italy is benefited. Ok add them to the rules and map and post.

The one round thing is fair as well.

[tekkyy]

The benchmarks were
% high mountainous
% extreme mountainous
population location

Reducing it one round is fair.
It also makes realism mistakes less amplified.
But no excuse to ignore realism mistakes.

Why are Japan and Italian East Africa not good for marking as mountainous?

[Imperious Leader]

In Japans case its a huge advantage because its an island so invasion is difficult

For Italy its better because They need all the help they can get if playing them.

[tekkyy]

Oh I see. So thats fine then.

Realism wise, no problems.
Gameplay wise, potential unbalance but reduced to one cycle already.

Overall, do you find Axis or Allies stronger?

like

Axis
*Germany makes use of tank and air changes
*Japan makes use of VC infantry raising

Allies
*Fleet operation easier
*US/UK Joint landing

[Imperious Leader]

NO opinon due to limited playtesting. Only system tested and mock 1-2 turns played. I have not printed out the map because i figured one of us would not like what we made and wanted more perfections… which is what has happened.

[tekkyy]

As you know I printed the map out.
In fact more than once due to changes.
Its just spanned on A4s so its cheap to replace bits.

I haven’t played many games. Like 3 games all up.
And thats across the year or two of development.

You know what.
I think we should do playtesting.
You know abattlemap?

@Imperious:

OK then. I made another effort but its not finished. The sea zones are more like OOB ( don’t ask me how)

Thats the funny thing.
Should AARHE OOB be the same as AARHE 1939/1942 at all?

We should simply have more realistic sea zones in 1939 and 1942.

I also want a “pretty map” and also one that will allow pieces not to be cramped.Its like opposite goals and the trick is to make people think you pulled it off by illusion. I am not happy with the 1939 map for the same reason you desire this more realistic map. Also i dont like the colors and would rather maintain the OOB colors for a 1939 map sake Frogs and Italy.

By “pretty map” I just mean better shapes and stuff.
And ah I see you want to go back to revised colours.

Also, you want shorelines?

Actually I don’t want shorelines, waves, or pictures in the sea.
You talking about those like in Global War right?

Also, I can make terrain so we dont have to write “mountains and snow” thats kinda cheezy IMO.

Instead of words we could use icons.

What do you mean by make terrain?
Like classic AA map?

[Imperious Leader]

You know what.
I think we should do playtesting.
You know abattlemap?

Id rather play from our map once its finalized. Id use the dicey thats available here

Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 01:13:14 am
OK then. I made another effort but its not finished. The sea zones are more like OOB ( don’t ask me how)
Thats the funny thing.
Should AARHE OOB be the same as AARHE 1939/1942 at all?

Yes at least the first version map. Italy map and 1939 will be different. The basic map should not change at all. I also think a AARHE lite should be created for Dummies who don’t like more than 2-5 pages of new rules

We should simply have more realistic sea zones in 1939 and 1942.

Both will be offered in the last 2 of three maps

Quote
Also, you want shorelines?
Actually I don’t want shorelines, waves, or pictures in the sea.
You talking about those like in Global War right?

Not really. But something to lift the land and define it more from the water… basically a light band of blue

Quote
Also, I can make terrain so we dont have to write “mountains and snow” thats kinda cheezy IMO.

Instead of words we could use icons.

What do you mean by make terrain?
Like classic AA map?

Yes indeed. I have already prepared this, but perfecting it.  Also the straight interdiction icons are too abstract.

I think a logo with a script is more fitting. BTW what is the meaning of 2 lines and 2 spots vs, 2 lines and one spot?

[Imperious Leader]

line work finished. i checked it please check again.

http://www.mediafire.com/?9iylxmimjee

[tekkyy]

Id rather play from our map once its finalized. Id use the dicey thats available here

Actually I am more into playtesting with the “AARHE OOB” map.

Playtesting of AARHE 1942 Italy and AARHE 1939 extensions should come after.

Yes at least the first version map. Italy map and 1939 will be different. The basic map should not change at all. I also think a AARHE lite should be created for Dummies who don’t like more than 2-5 pages of new rules

Yeah thats what I meant to say.
“AARHE standard” map uses AAR OOB sea zones.
“AARHE 1942 Italy” and “AARHE 1939” map has new sea zones.

Now I am thinking

“AARHE 1942” and “AARHE 1939” shall share the same sea zones
“AARHE standard”, “AARHE 1942”, “AARHE 1939” shall share the same continent map

Not really. But something to lift the land and define it more from the water… basically a light band of blue

actually I didn’t like that too much
you can have it as a separate layer if you are having it

Yes indeed. I have already prepared this, but perfecting it.

Like you going to put a topographic map on the buttom?
Its hard to align.
Should only do it if you can find a map with both a national border version and a topographic version.

Really don’t even consider drawing borders yourself. Its just ugly.

Also the straight interdiction icons are too abstract.
I think a logo with a script is more fitting. BTW what is the meaning of 2 lines and 2 spots vs, 2 lines and one spot?

Green is strait interdiction.
Red is canal-like.
Dots represent control. (So you don’t have to look up a table or accidentally start shooting at ships from Algeria.)

line work finished. i checked it please check again.
http://www.mediafire.com/?9iylxmimjee

I think you’ve put Okinawa into the Kwangtung sea zone.
And thats just a “technology demostrator” right?  :lol:

Please don’t just jump into it.
Wait til we’ve got that base map done.

And please use layers.

[tekkyy]

You can’t “unmerge” the nations that I merged to create the game territories.
So if you make 1942 and 1939 maps from my map you have draw new territories yourself and that just ugly.

So I’ll make the base map now.

[tekkyy]

I can only get Western Europe to Ukraine to be 30cm of 1782cm.
This is actually bigger than your supposed “15 inches” job, which was actually 27cm at this size.

See if you can make Europe bigger. I think I don’t know illustrator enough.

http://www.mediafire.com/?2yavw0dfwzw

Don’t start other work yet. We’ve got to get the base file done first.

[Imperious Leader]

a few things…

Is that link the same map as before?  I notice you crunched the eastern part of Russia. Also some of the Hawaiian Islands are missing.

What do you not like about the previous map? Do you feel its too large or? I think its a fine starting point whereas the one you posted is going backwards on work both of us have already done.

If you want a realistic map which is the point then enlarging Europe alone is impossible unless a major edit also must occur to patch it to the territories that are not enlarged. Its impossible unless Africa and Middle east are junked. Thats why the former AARHE 1939 map has a poor representation of the area between Suez to India.

I made a few mistakes on the line work which im fixing. If you want a fancy script try and make one. I will type out the names of territories so they can be added as a layer and easily changed into any font so dont worry.

I have not worked on islands at all, i left the map you have alone. only the entire map globally was altered. As you know the islands are way too small and will need to be enlarged (and more islands added) so its playable.

[tekkyy]

Is that link the same map as before?  I notice you crunched the eastern part of Russia. Also some of the Hawaiian Islands are missing.

Its different. The free vector world map doesn’t have small islands.
I had to put them in from live traces of google maps. And we will do that later. Continent has to be done first.

What do you not like about the previous map? Do you feel its too large or? I think its a fine starting point whereas the one you posted is going backwards on work both of us have already done.

The layers were crushed.
Its large yet Europe was small. (When both scaled to 178cm your edit is 25.3cm and this new map is 29.5cm for Western Europe to Ukraine.)

We need a neat new map as a starting point / base map for the 3 AARHE maps.

I did all the techniques mentioned I think. Trimmed north and south. Trimmed Central America. Shrunk North and South America. Shrunk Soviet Far East…
Maybe there are more so we can enlarge Europe further.

This is a screenshot comparison of the two maps.
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/9584/comparisonwt7.png

If you want a realistic map which is the point then enlarging Europe alone is impossible unless a major edit also must occur to patch it to the territories that are not enlarged. Its impossible unless Africa and Middle east are junked. Thats why the former AARHE 1939 map has a poor representation of the area between Suez to India.

No we enlarge Europe. Forgo realistic map.
Don’t get confused. These are two different projects (my “real map” project and the AARHE project).

The new AARHE maps still has to be playable.

I made a few mistakes on the line work which im fixing. If you want a fancy script try and make one. I will type out the names of territories so they can be added as a layer and easily changed into any font so dont worry.

You talking about sea zones?
Until the continent/territories are finalised, we can’t do the other work yet.
Don’t work on them yet.

I have not worked on islands at all, i left the map you have alone. only the entire map globally was altered. As you know the islands are way too small and will need to be enlarged (and more islands added) so its playable.

Yes we shall enlarge UK, Japan etc. Thats all very easy compared to getting Europe right.

[Imperious Leader]

The map you posted last night leaves much to be desired.  I am going to upload a real map ASAP. Its much more detailed.

AS soon as you got it let me know because i need to delete the file.

[tekkyy]

I edited my last post too

@Imperious:

The map you posted last night leaves much to be desired.  I am going to upload a real map ASAP. Its much more detailed.

AS soon as you got it let me know because i need to delete the file.

What is there to be desired?
I though I applied all we’ve did to the continents.
If you are talking about income icons and colour fill and stuff…those has no place in a base map.
The AARHE 1939 map has different vastly different income and control from the AARHE standard map.

What are you uploading? A vector world map?
What site? I hope its not what I have already.

[Imperious Leader]

The map from last night has no definition of the coastline. Look at how the artist drew more angles, while the second offering  has much less ( hence more smooth)

i will PM you the 2 files. Don’t give them to others. If you decide to use them, the changes we make will allow them to get posted

[tekkyy]

The free vector map has coastline, borders and nation shapes.
I just got rid of the coastline and borders and only left the nation shapes cos thats what I thought we’ll only need.
its more complex when you have coastline, but we can have it if you want to make the shoreline decoration.

The map you gave me looks great with relief map.
But it seems to have nation-to-nation borders but no shapes. Its not as easy as having nation shapes which you just fill in colours easily.

Or hopefully my world map is exactly as your world map in accuracy, then we can use the shapes from my world map and the geography from your world map.

Geography map looks nice. But might make the icons and text hard to read.
And if we use them I presume we then have shapes with OOB colours and opacity set to 50% or something on top of the relief map?
We have to consider that before deciding to use it.

[Imperious Leader]

My intention was not to use the relief map as the map, but only use the line artwork because its more detailed. Also, Europe looks larger. If you break the file open you can make it all one color and then eventually change individual portions of it.

The ocean color and fonts etc. can all be removed.

However, if you want it to look like the Milton Bradley map you can use opacity for the national colors and have them placed over the terrain features.  I have not tried this, but that would be the only way to go.

If you compare Norway to your Norway (on the other map you posted its a huge difference in detail)

Also, as you may suspect you have the add the west coast to the other side by flipping it around.

[tekkyy]

My intention was not to use the relief map as the map, but only use the line artwork because its more detailed.

no we don’t have to use the relief map
I am only saying cos you wanted it earlier like the classic map
it’ll just make text and icons harder to read

Also, Europe looks larger.

it looks larger
but its not larger
its still a real map
the comparison figure is 20cm and 22cm for those two maps
(comparison figure: map scaled to 1782mm long, maximum measure of Western Europe to Ukraine)

whereas my old map was 24cm
and it took a lot of pain to scale to 30cm
this is going to be harder thats all

If you break the file open you can make it all one color and then eventually change individual portions of it.

it just doesn’t have shapes of each nation
it only has continent lines and nation borders
there is lots of manual work to be done before we can colour in territories
(or maybe you know some tricks to do it neatly with illustrator?)

If you compare Norway to your Norway (on the other map you posted its a huge difference in detail)

yes its a lot more detailed, in fact it has small islands like Azores!
(one of the maps downloaded had small islands, but no country shapes nor borders…its only good for grabbing the islands when needed…but really we should just do zooms of google map and live trace the small islands…prettier)

Also, as you may suspect you have the add the west coast to the other side by flipping it around.

the Mercator yes
the Robinson no I don’t know to do it in illustrator
you have to warp a curve shape