I doubt it, since the game is out of print.
Russian Fighters
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I have come to really like either an R1 or R2 FIG purchase. 3 FIGs to trade 3 territories along the German front…
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To demonstrate the flexibility of buying 1 fighter every round with Russia I took a few notes on their kills from my last F-T-F game. Keep in mind this is in addition to the normal trade moves with Germany.
Destroyed: 1 German BB, 1 German Transport, 2 German subs, 2 Japanese transports.
Losses: 3 Fighters (all to transports btw)
Thats 64 IPCs of hardware for 30 spent. Also the Russian airforce twice defended an American IC in Sinkiang. Rather hard to do all that with tanks or infantry.
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In other words, that’s 30 IPCs spent to kill 0 IPCs spent, since the German navy and Japanese transports were already on the board to start with. Does that still sound good to you? What I hate when people start using IPC values is that they don’t really understand how to make it relevant. There is a very big difference between spending IPCs to take out existing IPCs versus spending IPCs to take out the other guy’s spent IPCs.
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Only the German TRN and BB was original and I was more than happy to stop bombardment and troop delivery from Italy. Since Russia starts with 2 fighters by your logic I only lost a dollar. I don’t count the its there so it don’t cost argument. Yes you don’t buy those units at the start but if you want them once they are gone they have to be purchased.
Bottom line for me I think having a minimum of 6 fighters with Russia is the way to get the most bang for the buck.
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For everyone who dismisses the value of the units your start the game with…
I challenge you to a game where the board starts empty and each nation begins with a build based on their initial income!
I’ll take the Allies :-D
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Only the German TRN and BB was original and I was more than happy to stop bombardment and troop delivery from Italy. Since Russia starts with 2 fighters by your logic I only lost a dollar. I don’t count the its there so it don’t cost argument. Yes you don’t buy those units at the start but if you want them once they are gone they have to be purchased.
No, by my logic you spent 30 IPCs in fighters. The Germans spent 0 IPCs in navy.
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@ncscswitch:
For everyone who dismisses the value of the units your start the game with…
I challenge you to a game where the board starts empty and each nation begins with a build based on their initial income!
I’ll take the Allies :-D
No one is stipulating that all original units are worthless. We are just comparing spent money to unspent money.
For instance, I don’t know a single German player who would be unhappy trading the SZ 5 fleet to kill two british fighters and a bomber. That’s not saying the SZ 5 fleet is worthless, just that it’s value compared to other units is not as high.
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Maximizing the value of all of your units (newly bought, and the ones you start with) is the key to victory.
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That’s exactly right; I’d rather have the US or UK take out the med fleet with their initial airforce rather than build 3 figs with Russia to do it :/
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those 2 fighters are most likely the most important units in the game. so it stands to reason that to buy a third plane at SOME point makes sence, not necessarily on R1 however.
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@Imperious:
those 2 fighters are most likely the most important units in the game.
Agreed. ~ZP
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@Bean:
Only the German TRN and BB was original and I was more than happy to stop bombardment and troop delivery from Italy. Since Russia starts with 2 fighters by your logic I only lost a dollar. I don’t count the its there so it don’t cost argument. Yes you don’t buy those units at the start but if you want them once they are gone they have to be purchased.
No, by my logic you spent 30 IPCs in fighters. The Germans spent 0 IPCs in navy.
By my logic, Russia just forced themselves to expose a bunch of offensive ground units to German aircraft in Europe. I’d be more than happy to trade the Med fleet for 3 Russian fighters.
@ncscswitch:
For everyone who dismisses the value of the units your start the game with…
I challenge you to a game where the board starts empty and each nation begins with a build based on their initial income!
I’ll take the Allies :-D
I’ll take that bet. Place all of Germany’s ground and air units in West Russia and their navy in sz5 if you only allow units to be placed in OOB occupied sz’s or in sz6 if you allow them to be placed in sz’s bordering any territory you own. I don’t think it would matter where Japan put’s their units but I’d say place their whole navy and 4 fig in sz60 an all the rest in FIC. I don’t need a bid. :-D
It might be fun to really play a game like that if there were limits like: you can only increase the number of units in each territory or sz up to 50% max IPC value based on OOB starting positions, such as a territory that normally contains 10 IPC’s in units can only be increased by 5 more IPC’s in units.
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I was not speaking of a liquidation start U-505… I was being sarcastic about startign with a vacant board, then USSR gets to build $24 of units, Germahy $40, UK $30, Japan $30, USA $42… (no combat round 1 since no nation would have any units on the board), the start from there.
It was a post to point out how silly it is to discount the units you start with when determining the value of various units.
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Oh, I misread that. Never mind. I’ll just build all ground units(4,2,1 mix inf/art/arm) except for 6 fighters with Germany and place them all in WR. And 1 sub in sz6.
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@ncscswitch:
I was not speaking of a liquidation start U-505… I was being sarcastic about startign with a vacant board, then USSR gets to build $24 of units, Germahy $40, UK $30, Japan $30, USA $42… (no combat round 1 since no nation would have any units on the board), the start from there.
It was a post to point out how silly it is to discount the units you start with when determining the value of various units.
I know. I was just messing with you. I value all of my starting units. Otherwise I would SBR with the German bomber from G1.
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Back on topic…
I like a R1 USSR FIG build. 3 FIGs to allow for trading 3 territories along the German front. If conditions permit, I will buy a 4th.
But the Russians cannot afford to be the ones to take out the Med Fleet. Those FIGs are too critical to trading with Germany (and later countering Japan advances) to be lost to destroy a TRN and BB.
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The Russian fighters should never be used for anything except proven odds battles where they are not at risk, unless its the ‘big battle’ to decide the war…etc
Russians can never replace them unless they are clearly not in trouble.
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@ncscswitch:
Back on topic…
I like a R1 USSR FIG build.
I don’t. And for only one reason: Because you can’t forsee how R1 will turn out. We’re having that discussion in the other thread about having to plan for bad dice in ADS and this case is a perfect example. No matter what you attack on R1, if Russia ends up taking heavy casualties and you bought the 3rd fighter, you’re going to be missing the 2 inf, 1 art you could have bought instead. I prefer to wait until the battle lines are established before deciding if I can spare the 10 IPC’s for a 3rd Russian fighter. I see extra Russian fighters as a luxury as opposed to a neccesity. If Germany can push a big stack covered by an AA into Ukraine or Belorussia earlier than normal because Russia is short on ground units then the 3rd fighter bought on R1 just became a poor purchase.
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I think it should if ever be build only after Soviets are out of immediate danger, and more likely if this is a KGF deal.
otherwise it would be good for R2-3 provided the German player is spending IPC on fleet that will not impact USSR, such as the transport piggyback to Russia from baltic. The fighters would be good to keep Japanese back long enough to make an impact on Germany
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Exactly. It’s much better to wait until the battle lines are drawn first. That way you can not only determine if it is possible after seeing R1 but also determine if a 3rd fighter is a correct purchase after seeing Germany tip it’s hand on it’s strategy on G1. Buying a 3rd Russian fighter isn’t always the correct move, even as late as R3, so you shouldn’t pigeonhole yourself by doing it before you even see the first die fall.
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