Russian Fighters

[Romulus]

I usually loss 2-3 tanks first two turns!  :-D
So my thanks atre not sitting pointless in Caucasus, they usually fight and die in Ukraine.
I try to buy 1 art and/or 1 tanks  every turn, if possible. As Trihero said art is the poorman unit for trading territory! :)

So at goes to the German front, tanks goes to the Japanese front and fightere… where they are more needed!

[a44bigdog]

R1 Purchase 1 FGT, 2 ARM, 1 ART. Attack Bellorus with 3 INF 2 FGT. Attack W.Russia with 2 Archangel INF, Moscow INF, Both ART, and Moscow and Karelia ARM. Caucasus troops stay put and fighters land there. If necessary transfer some INF from Caucasus to W. Russia for defense. The 2 INF that can step forward into the Caucasus where placement is made. This gives Russia 28 IPCs for R2 and should be enough defense to keep Germany at bay or make things VERY costly.

R2 Purchase 1 FGT 6 INF. From this point on I start to harass Germany by taking what I can with INF and FGT. I continue to purchase 1 FGT and INF until R4 and maintain trading territories with Germany with Infantry only. At 6 fighters this gives 2 fighters per territory of the 3 normally in dispute. From this point more ARM can begin to be purchased although generally around this time I have already started a drive toward Berlin.

Russia begins the game with a fair amount of hardware and a ton of infantry. Russia CANNOT afford to trade hardware with Germany. I do not place Russian tanks on the frontline unless I am sure they will not be destroyed which is generally a drive to Berlin. The purpose of this drive is not to take Berlin but kill Germans. Russia is quite happy with no troops between Moscow and Berlin and Germany is not. Russia does not have to take Germany, just hold out until help arrives for the kill. Germany on the other hand basically HAS to take Moscow and before help can arrive.

[trihero]

I have to say I’ve changed my mind since I posted in this thread, I do like buying 1 fighter immediately with Russia, then I just keep slamming out infantry. The 1 fighter you purchase pays for itself in a few rounds of trading; it’s a better option than throwing an art away or throwing extra infantry away. Plus, when it comes down to trading 2 territories with Germany, then you can use the 3rd fighter to trade something with the Japanese.

R2 Purchase 1 FGT 6 INF. From this point on I start to harass Germany by taking what I can with INF and FGT. I continue to purchase 1 FGT and INF until R4 and maintain trading territories with Germany with Infantry only. At 6 fighters this gives 2 fighters per territory of the 3 normally in dispute. From this point more ARM can begin to be purchased although generally around this time I have already started a drive toward Berlin.

I think this is a little bit overboard. While you can trade pretty easy with 2 fighters per territory, purchasing 4 fighters also leaves you with very little true pushing power. I’d find it hard to push to Berlin when I’m 10 infantry short (buying 3 more fighters than a sane man would).

Germany on the other hand basically HAS to take Moscow and before help can arrive.

Hmm, usually Japan takes Moscow, while Germany turtles up and annoys the Allies.

[Jennifer]

I usually find that England does a good job of keeping Karelia liberated so that Russia only needs to trade Ukraine and Belorussia for a LONG time.

[trihero]

Well the way you seem to play it, UK is in Norway by round 5, so liberating Karelia on Round 6?

[Jennifer]

Again, this was a KJF test.  This is not my normal modus operandi.

Normally, I have UK in Norway on Round 2 and in Karelia on Round 3.  Until then, Russia just has to liberate all by themselves.  Perfectly capable of doing so.

[Guest]

I have come to really like either an R1 or R2 FIG purchase.  3 FIGs to trade 3 territories along the German front…

[a44bigdog]

To demonstrate the flexibility of buying 1 fighter every round with Russia I took a few notes on their kills from my last F-T-F game. Keep in mind this is in addition to the normal trade moves with Germany.

Destroyed: 1 German BB, 1 German Transport, 2 German subs, 2 Japanese transports.

Losses: 3 Fighters (all to transports btw)

Thats 64 IPCs of hardware for 30 spent. Also the Russian airforce twice defended an American IC in Sinkiang. Rather hard to do all that with tanks or infantry.

[trihero]

In other words, that’s 30 IPCs spent to kill 0 IPCs spent, since the German navy and Japanese transports were already on the board to start with. Does that still sound good to you? What I hate when people start using IPC values is that they don’t really understand how to make it relevant. There is a very big difference between spending IPCs to take out existing IPCs versus spending IPCs to take out the other guy’s spent IPCs.

[a44bigdog]

Only the German  TRN and BB was original and I was more than happy to stop bombardment and troop delivery from Italy. Since Russia starts with 2 fighters by your logic I only lost a dollar. I don’t count the its there so it don’t cost argument. Yes you don’t buy those units at the start but if you want them once they are gone they have to be purchased.

Bottom line for me I think having a minimum of 6 fighters with Russia is the way to get the most bang for the buck.

[Guest]

For everyone who dismisses the value of the units your start the game with…

I challenge you to a game where the board starts empty and each nation begins with a build based on their initial income!

I’ll take the Allies  :-D

[trihero]

Only the German  TRN and BB was original and I was more than happy to stop bombardment and troop delivery from Italy. Since Russia starts with 2 fighters by your logic I only lost a dollar. I don’t count the its there so it don’t cost argument. Yes you don’t buy those units at the start but if you want them once they are gone they have to be purchased.

No, by my logic you spent 30 IPCs in fighters. The Germans spent 0 IPCs in navy.

[Jennifer]

@ncscswitch:

For everyone who dismisses the value of the units your start the game with…

I challenge you to a game where the board starts empty and each nation begins with a build based on their initial income!

I’ll take the Allies  :-D

No one is stipulating that all original units are worthless.  We are just comparing spent money to unspent money.

For instance, I don’t know a single German player who would be unhappy trading the SZ 5 fleet to kill two british fighters and a bomber.  That’s not saying the SZ 5 fleet is worthless, just that it’s value compared to other units is not as high.

[Guest]

Maximizing the value of all of your units (newly bought, and the ones you start with) is the key to victory.

[trihero]

That’s exactly right; I’d rather have the US or UK take out the med fleet with their initial airforce rather than build 3 figs with Russia to do it :/

[Imperious Leader]

those 2 fighters are most likely the most important units in the game. so it stands to reason that to buy a third plane at SOME point makes sence, not necessarily on R1 however.

[Zero Pilot]

@Imperious:

those 2 fighters are most likely the most important units in the game.

Agreed. ~ZP

[U-505]

@Bean:

Only the German  TRN and BB was original and I was more than happy to stop bombardment and troop delivery from Italy. Since Russia starts with 2 fighters by your logic I only lost a dollar. I don’t count the its there so it don’t cost argument. Yes you don’t buy those units at the start but if you want them once they are gone they have to be purchased.

No, by my logic you spent 30 IPCs in fighters. The Germans spent 0 IPCs in navy.

By my logic, Russia just forced themselves to expose a bunch of offensive ground units to German aircraft in Europe. I’d be more than happy to trade the Med fleet for 3 Russian fighters.

@ncscswitch:

For everyone who dismisses the value of the units your start the game with…

I challenge you to a game where the board starts empty and each nation begins with a build based on their initial income!

I’ll take the Allies  :-D

I’ll take that bet. Place all of Germany’s ground and air units in West Russia and their navy in sz5 if you only allow units to be placed in OOB occupied sz’s or in sz6 if you allow them to be placed in sz’s bordering any territory you own. I don’t think it would matter where Japan put’s their units but I’d say place their whole navy and 4 fig in sz60 an all the rest in FIC. I don’t need a bid.  :-D

It might be fun to really play a game like that if there were limits like: you can only increase the number of units in each territory or sz up to 50% max IPC value based on OOB starting positions, such as a territory that normally contains 10 IPC’s in units can only be increased by 5 more IPC’s in units.

[Guest]

I was not speaking of a liquidation start U-505… I was being sarcastic about startign with a vacant board, then USSR gets to build $24 of units, Germahy $40, UK $30, Japan $30, USA $42… (no combat round 1 since no nation would have any units on the board), the start from there.

It was a post to point out how silly it is to discount the units you start with when determining the value of various units.

[U-505]

Oh, I misread that. Never mind. I’ll just build all ground units(4,2,1 mix inf/art/arm) except for 6 fighters with Germany and place them all in WR. And 1 sub in sz6.