KJF etc.

[trihero]

Battleship, Aricraft Carrier from SZ 37 to SZ 59
Fighter frm Manchuria to SZ 59
Battleship, Transport from SZ 60 to SZ 52
Fighter, Bomber from Japan to SZ 52
Fighter, Carrier, Destroyer from SZ 50 to SZ 52
Fighter from SZ 37 to SZ 47
Fighter from SZ 37 to SZ 52
Fighter Manchuria to SZ 59
2 Infantry, Fighter from Manchuria to China
3 INfantry from Kwangtung to China
2 Infantry, Fighter from FIC to China

I didn’t read the rest of your post because I got caught up here. You seem to have duplicated a lot of fighters! Twice you say manchurian fighter to SZ59, and also you said manchuria fighter to China. Could you clarify, please?

[Jennifer]

Manchurian fighter to SZ 59

7 Infantry, Fighter to China resulting in 5 Infantry, Fighter surviving.

Sorry.  I made some adjustments on the fly for the ridiculous British round. :P  And the silly Russian Non-Combats. hehe.  Anyway, NCM should have cleared that up when I only moved a solitary fighter from China to SZ 60.

Map woulda helped too. wink

[trihero]

Ok thanks, I think I understand now.

I think the short term trouble Japan in is more serious than it looks. I know Germany is off the hook here, but let’s just focus on the hypothetical with what Japan should be doing and how long it can hold off, because simply that’s all I’m interested at the moment.

Japan lost 2 fighters on their first turn. (off of Kwang, and in Pearl) And have no tranports at the beginning of J2. A total of 5 inf in China is their mainland force.

I forgot to assume that the UK built an IC in India (with 5 inf in UK to help prevent sealion), and their 2 fighters were sent to Moscow.

And, for the sake of Argument, let’s say America does build in SZ 55.  They have to defend against a battleship, destroyer, aircraft carrier and 4 fighters.  I don’t think there’s much they can build to win against that.  Meanwhile, japan can STILL build her transports because she’ll have the battleship and carrier from SZ 59 to protect them.

America could build 2 car 1 fig. That’s a total of 2 car 4 fig 1 bb 1 dest 1 tran in SZ55 at the end of US1, which is 1 tran and 1 car more than the Japanese have, and they’re all on defense! The Americans will be just fine : ).

On Round 2, Russia blitzes to Kwangtung with their tank from India, and occupies Manchuria with 6 inf 2 arm, and lands their 2 figs into Sinkiang. +9 income to Russia  :evil:

UK on Round 2, builds 3 tanks for their IC, sends 4 inf + aa gun + 1 fighter into F Indo, the other fighter and bomber land in China.

What does Japan do on their turn 2?

[Jennifer]

Well, that is a problem.  No possible way Japan can survive a concerted KJF.  Contrary to what Switch and others have been saying for years. :P

But as I said, you can sink the American fleet and still have your own fleet left to augment.  Expensive, yes.  But not impossible.  Meanwhile, Germany (who you cannot just forget because they are a major factor in this) is piling infantry and armor into Russia at a rate the Russian’s cannot absorb without American and British help.  So Japan’s doing it’s job.  It’s removing IPCs worth of units from the Allies by tying them up in the Pacific.  It’s gunna take 5 rounds for the Allies to be secure in the Pan-Asian rim.  It’s going to take 6 rounds for Germany to own Moscow.

[trihero]

I just wonder how the game plays out in a KJF after both Moscow and Tokyo fall. What the heck would each side try to do to get 9 VCs? I mean Germany could sure try to push out all the way to the ocean, but would still be missing a VC even if they got that far.

I suppose that might be the time when tech is developed - combined bombardment. At this point Germany needs to go out to sea to get a VC (tokyo/LA/Washington/London), but I guess after they control the mainland IPCs?

It’s just so ugly I don’t want to think about it, Africa is up for grabs again, tank driving between Moscow and East Asia… O_O?!

I guess the Allies would be behind, because the US will very likely have their ICs on East Asia later, if not much later, than Moscow is run over. I dunno…

[Jennifer]

Well, in most KJF games Tokyo is a bitch to get.  Moscow isn’t so hard.  Mainly because America has to build transports to take Tokyo.  Germany has to build armor to take Moscow.  5 IPC vs 8 IPC.

After Tokyo falls, Germany better be ready because the allies are going to put 5 ICs in SE asia to keep up with the Germans.

However, Moscow is going to fall first in most games.  Especially if Ameirca shares and lets England get some of the islands to keep them in the game.

At this point, Germany would be wise to use all their assets for two rounds for a Kriegsmarine (with battleships for bombarding!)

By SBRing England + bombarding you can keep their income down low enough to prevent positive unit gain and then move for Operation Sea Lion.  It’s your only hope because you won’t be holding Asia at that great distance and if you let the Allies start to tie you up, you’re dead.

[trihero]

After Tokyo falls, Germany better be ready because the allies are going to put 5 ICs in SE asia to keep up with the Germans.

However, Moscow is going to fall first in most games.  Especially if Ameirca shares and lets England get some of the islands to keep them in the game.

It just seems to me like the Germans would get the jump on Asia. Because Tokyo takes a while to whittle away, even one extra turn for the Germans would mean they’ve blitzed to sinkiang, and it’s a short stop to any one of 3 complexes which can’t bear the weight of 20-30 tanks even when combined, much less individually.

[Jennifer]

Exactly my point.

But even if the German’s get a jump, they are not going to liberate Tokyo from Russia.  They have to go for something else.  Like London.

[Guest]

1.  Moscow Falls.
2.  Germany builds INF to secure their holdings
3.  INF and ARM from Moscow move into Asia, gaining German income, and eventually liberating Japan income
4.  Germany starts building fleet and AF, and goes after the Royal Navy, then after London.
5.  Meanwhile, Japan defends their island…

[trihero]

Lol maybe we’ve come full circle to say that KJF sucks, again! =p

[Guest]

Don;t get me wrong… Japan CAN be taken.  I have done it, and had it done to me.

The problem is that if Japan can hold even a single turn past the fall of moscow, the Allies are still in trouble because Germany is huge…

[trihero]

The problem is that if Japan can hold even a single turn past the fall of moscow, the Allies are still in trouble because Germany is huge…

Wise words.

Btw, what do you think is the most effective way of taking Tokyo? Obviously you have to knock out as much income as you can first or you’ll be trying to deal with 8 inf or a higher defensive mix added every turn, but after that then what? Amass BBs and slowly shell them away? Pound every turn with a 4x4 or 5x5? O_O?

[axis_roll]

@Bean:

The problem is that if Japan can hold even a single turn past the fall of moscow, the Allies are still in trouble because Germany is huge…

Wise words.

Btw, what do you think is the most effective way of taking Tokyo? Obviously you have to knock out as much income as you can first or you’ll be trying to deal with 8 inf or a higher defensive mix added every turn, but after that then what? Amass BBs and slowly shell them away? Pound every turn with a 4x4 or 5x5? O_O?

The problem would be logistical.

Getting either one huge dump of ground units on mega transports or trying to set-up a 1-2 punch, either one takes planning around getting ‘loaded’ transports to sz60/61.

[Jennifer]

3 Industrial Complexes in Manchuria, Kwangtung and FIC for America and put all your transports in SZ 61.  :P  Why shuttle if you don’t have too?

Add IC in Sinkiang/China too, for good measure!  Hell, you’re earning 64 IPC a round anyway, right?  You can fill 13 infantry easily.

[Lucifer]

Jennifer, by the time US can do what you are talking about, the game would be over.
I’m tempted to challenge you to do a KJF on me……
TripleA, 9 bid axis (ladder rules, max 1 unit bid place pr. TT.)
TTL, low luck. No tech.
If you beat me, i think that will be because you are better, and not because of your KJF strat.

[Jennifer]

Then darlin, if it’s because I’m better and not more KJF strategically why challenge me? :P

But if you want too, I think I can make a good showing for KJF.  Hell, I think with my level of knowledge in KJF now a days I could even make Switch do a double take in a game against me.  He’d probably still end up winning in the long run, but in the short run, he might be severely put off balance.  :evil:

Actually, I don’t really do kill Japan first.  I do IJF (Isolate Japan First) that is reduce them to an island.

[trihero]

I think any level of player can be isolated as Japan if all the Allies are committed to it, it’s what happens afterwards  :-o

[Lucifer]

In an IJF, that means taking all Japanese TT’s except Tokyo, before going after Germany?
What resources will be spent against Japan, and what resources will be used against Germany?

It would be fun to play you anyway, with or without KJF,
and if I beat you, I get to see teh secret naked Jennypics  :roll:

:-D

[Jennifer]

Potential English Investment:  Industrial Complex in India + 3 Infantry a turn for 3 rounds.

100% of American assets in the Pacific with the possible exception of the 2 transports, Destroyer, 2 infnatry, armor, aa gun and fighter in E. USA/SZ 10 going to SZ 12/Algeria to secure the British landing.

The goal of IJF is to take:

Manchuria,
Kwangtung
FIC
Borneo
E. Indies
New Guinea
Philippines
Okinawa

Wake, Carolinas and Solomon Islands can be ignored as they are worthless and only a drain on American assets.

I recommend Borneo and New Guinea be left to England at least, maybe even E. Indies.  To make up for the loss of Africa.  With a SZ 30 consolidation that’s easy to do.  Without a SZ 30 consolidation you might want to hit FIC and clear it of infantry and send everything else to SZ 59 and guarentee that transport is gone to protect the UK 1 IC.

[Lucifer]

If all US production is used in pacific (from L.A.) + at least 9 ipc from UK each rnd, then I’m happy to play you,
using tripleA, if you can host, I can’t.

Now, 5 German trans G1 is definately going to stop this, but I won’t buy trans with Germany
anyway.
I take 8 bid for G, 9 if you give me 1 ipc…
Then we make an appointment for when we play.
TTL, no tech, low luck.