Well I like an American Pacific offensive more and more because I find that Japan cannot keep pace in the fleet wars and build up a land force to threaten Moscow at the same time. Either it loses the fleet battle (which means Japan will lose half its income) or it can only send a token force against the Russians. So I go Pacific whenever I can. But if USA starts with a disadvantage in the Pacific (this will be most games), it is not the best strategy. The best players will adapt their strategy to what is happening in the game.
KJF etc.
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Anyway, I disagree. Pearl cannot be abandoned.
What is your proposal then? Build a destroyer + 2 tran in the inner seazone of Japan? Still attack both China and the Kwang navy? You have 3 fighters to split between China/British fleet, and you will very likely allow both F. Indo and Manchuria to fall hard on round 2.
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@Cmdr:
Pearl cannot be abandoned.
Yes, I’ve done it several times, and also seen many games with no pearl J1, the only difference is that US would not buy AC US1,
or buy only 1 AC.
A few times US lands in SFE.
Actually I cannot recall games that this have had significant importance.
Then again, a big majority of all games I’ve seen and played, Jap does pearl J1. -
Anyway, I disagree. Pearl cannot be abandoned.
What is your proposal then? Build a destroyer + 2 tran in the inner seazone of Japan? Still attack both China and the Kwang navy? You have 3 fighters to split between China/British fleet, and you will very likely allow both F. Indo and Manchuria to fall hard on round 2.
I think I posted my idea.
But to clarify, if I am going to ignore any naval units, it’s going to be the British because they are less able to augment it.
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But to clarify, if I am going to ignore any naval units, it’s going to be the British because they are less able to augment it.
That leaves the problem of trying to build any transports on J1. They will be threatened by 1 dest 1 car 1 tran 1 bomb (Persia, or whatever it is to the left of India) on UK2.
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More likely threatened by 1 destroyer, 1 aircraft carrier and 1 bomber. Odds are that transport went to liberate Egypt and is out of range
Meanwhile, I have a battleship and a number of transports. You want to sink yourself to get a transport, go for it.
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Meanwhile, I have a battleship and a number of transports. You want to sink yourself to get a transport, go for it.
Where did your battleship come from? I thought it was in Pearl, because if it ain’t, you got a problem of an American response to overpower Pearl. Light Pearl is no longer an option (assuming solomons sub dead and UK fighter in Pearl), and if you don’t have a super heavy defense in Pearl, you’re asking for it. The other bb is too far to reinforce the Japanese seazones.
And I’m too lazy to look around for whatever you posted earlier about a Japanese counter; I don’t even know where it is in this thread or if it is there. Could you respost real fast?
Edit: I think I see your response, it’s in the crash course thread. I see how you account for your bb to defend.
The solomon subs is not there twice as often as it is there, so it’s probably a good idea to think also if you don’t have it. In that case Pearl becomes an 80% affair, with the average result as losing 2 fighters 1 dest. I don’t know if I like to sacrifice Japanese fighters like that. Do you feel it is worth it?
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If UK get lucky in UK1, they got Borneo and New Guinea, Jap sub killed, Jap trans killed.
6 Russian inf in Bury.
Then the pacific map is looking like it is probably not a good alternative to do pearl, at least
not always. -
@Cmdr:
Pearl cannot be abandoned.
Yes, I’ve done it several times, and also seen many games with no pearl J1, the only difference is that US would not buy AC US1,
or buy only 1 AC.
A few times US lands in SFE.
Actually I cannot recall games that this have had significant importance.
Then again, a big majority of all games I’ve seen and played, Jap does pearl J1.I can see skipping Pearl if the allies are not set up well in Asia to do a good KJF, or are set up to do a KGF (as much as you can tell from R1 and UK1….)
US versus Japan can be a losing proposition for the allies. In fact, I know of a very solid Japanese player that skips Pearl all the time to entice US to build a fleet since he feels he can win the pacific battle and to keep Germany from getting triple teamed.
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Trihero:
That’s a very bad assumption. There’s almost a 70% Chance that your submarine will survive in SZ 45. It’s much better to assume it lived instead of died.
As for the British Fighter, that’s usually sent to Egypt to liberate Egypt and stop Germany from blitzing Africa and getting massive income, so it too is a poor assumption to have in Pearl.
Odds are Pearl has Fighter, Aircraft Carrier, Submarine.
Japan hits it with 3 Fighters, Destroyer, Submarine, Bomber (or 4 fighters, depending on how many attacks you need to do.) This conserves your battleship to defend your transports in SZ 60, as I have previously stated.
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@Cmdr:
Trihero:
That’s a very bad assumption. There’s almost a 70% Chance that your submarine will survive in SZ 45. It’s much better to assume it lived instead of died.
Naw, he said that UK fighter at Pearl. That probably means UK sub and UK fighter against Jap sub at Solomons. That’s a 33.3% chance that Jap sub is alive, not 70%.
As for the British Fighter, that’s usually sent to Egypt to liberate Egypt and stop Germany from blitzing Africa and getting massive income, so it too is a poor assumption to have in Pearl.
So you DID read what Trihero wrote about the fighter . . . almost like you’re deliberately ignoring it . . . anyways, UK always has the UK bomber to use against Anglo-Egypt, assuming it even needs it; the UK can usually bring the Trans-Jordan infantry and two infantry transported from India.
Odds are Pearl has Fighter, Aircraft Carrier, Submarine.
Not if the UK deliberately sent the fighter there, as Trihero wrote. If you’re going to reply to Trihero, you ought to at least reply to the post he wrote, instead of “replying” to a post that you’re writing on your own. Tsk tsk.
Japan hits it with 3 Fighters, Destroyer, Submarine, Bomber (or 4 fighters, depending on how many attacks you need to do.) This conserves your battleship to defend your transports in SZ 60, as I have previously stated.
And as Trihero previously stated, the Jap sub is probably dead and Pearl has a UK fighter.
now, Jen . . . the crack pipe isn’t for everyone . . . you have to use it responsibly . . .
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Okay, so you are going to send 3 Infantry and a Bomber against an Infantry, Artillery and 2 Armor in Egypt?
Who’s smoking on the crack pipe?
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@Cmdr:
Okay, so you are going to send 3 Infantry and a Bomber against an Infantry, Artillery and 2 Armor in Egypt?
Who’s smoking on the crack pipe?
Somehow, you always have a legion or two in your pocket, jen. But I have learned from your examplez0rz, and now I prezent . . .
DESERT FIGHTERS
so ur in Anglo-Egypt with ur infantry artillery and 2 armor, which somehow materialized out of an Africa bid that you placed not putting them in Ukraine as you say you normally do last I heard. BUT SUDDENLY WAT IS THAT ON THE HORIZON, IT IS THE DESERT FIGHTERS YAY!
“Charging out of the Sahara desert, the Fremen of Muad-Dib rode their giant sand-worms to victory over the soldiers of the Third Reich. And there was much rejoicing.”
There is only ONE tank left in Anglo-Egypt, and it’s out of gas. The heroic British will EASILY kill that single tankz0rz.
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I use my crack pipe RESPONSIBLY! :-D . . . usually . . . :lol:
No, seriously, Jen, you can’t switch your bid and moves to retroactively respond to what the other person’s move is. UK built fighters? Oh, then you built tanks with Germany and already charged forwards, killing the overly aggressive Russian units that attacked three German territories. UK built transports? You just happened to build four fighters last turn with Germany, how lucky!
. . . lol.
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That’s a very bad assumption. There’s almost a 70% Chance that your submarine will survive in SZ 45. It’s much better to assume it lived instead of died.
Simple statistics, which many players included Switch have calculated ages ago.
1 fighter + 1 sub vs 1 sub in solomons.
Fighter = 1/2 chance to hit, sub = 1/3 chance to hit.
Composite chance to hit is 2/3 in the first round (1/2 chance to miss mutiplied by 2/3 chance to miss = 1/3 chance to miss, so 2/3 chance to hit). The solomons sub won’t stay past the first round, so that is all that matters.
Or, simply use Frood. Go with one round of combat. Solomons sub dies 66% of the time on the first round (33% survival rate). Can you please explain where you got your 70% survival rate from?
Okay, so you are going to send 3 Infantry and a Bomber against an Infantry, Artillery and 2 Armor in Egypt?
Shrug, maybe they’re just accepting that Africa will fall for a few rounds (not counterattacking egypt), in exchange for making Japan’s life hell and possibly forcing them to make an error if they’re not skilled enough. It’s give and take, you do better in one theater and do worse in the other theater.The Allies are going to land hard in Africa anyways in the first few rounds according to your own strat Jen, so it’s not like the Germans will have a lasting impression there.
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Jennifer, would you also do pearl if UK has 2 inf in Borneo, 2 inf in NG, DD sz59,
UK sub in sz45, UK ftr is in sz59 with AC, sz48 on AC, or in sz52 on US AC?
Not to forget UK trans in sz47 and sz48. -
Yup, I’d still go Pearl, but I’d go Pearl heavy and I’d send the Battleship and transport to go liberate Borneo on J1.
Screw the rest of the British fleet. They’re a nuisance that can be dealt with at your convenience. An Aircraft Carrier + 2 Fighters will be more then enough to protect your new transports if they attack, which would be kind of silly for them to do. (AC from SZ 50 would suffice, if you want to go that route) or you could just delay game 1 round.
Myriad of things you could do if England is yielding Africa to Germany. After all, that means England’s earning 21 IPC tops probably closer to 12 IPC in very short order and thus they are out of the game. So who cares about a pair of single hit warships in SZ 59? In this case, America is still the greater devil, in fact, it’s even more a greater devil because England’s now removed all forms of testicular fortitude it might otherwise have had.
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@Cmdr:
testicular fortitude
excellent!
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Yup, I’d still go Pearl, but I’d go Pearl heavy and I’d send the Battleship and transport to go liberate Borneo on J1.
(AC from SZ 50 would suffice, if you want to go that route)
I’m just curious how does one go Pearl heavy and not send their carrier to Pearl as well? I would think you need the carrier in order to dissuade a counterstrike off of Hawaii.
Also, I would still consider striking 1 car + 2 fig + 3-4 tran in SZ61 or SZ60 with 1 tran 1 dest 1 car 1 bomb. According to Frood, 2/3 of the end results involve 2 or more losses for the Japanese. If the Japanese sacrifice transports then their land position looks very abysmal for another round, and if they sacrifice anything else then the US can be invited earlier.
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That’s what I’m saying, why go Pearl heavy? All you do is send your ships out where they are useless and now you have completely left your SZ 60/61 fleet naked, thus you have to choose not to build transports and now instead of having abysmal standing on the mainland, you have NO standing on the mainland.
Meanwhile, Destroyer, Aircraft Carrier, Bomber vs 2 Fighters, Aircraft Carrier, Battleship, 4 Transports may get you two hits. Okay. I damage the battleship and lose a fighter. I have all my transport ability and I’m only 10 IPC down while you’ve lost 43 IPC in equipment including a very nice bomber.
Pearl was light, but so what? I still destroyed everything and I recovered fighters with the SZ 37 Carrier in SZ 45. (Target-able by the battleship/transport, but that’s it. And that results in Defender survival with Fighter/Carrier left. But I might even just keep both fighters to ensure a better success if it goes to Round 2.)
Meanwhile, what have you bought yourself except a lot of dead allied ships?
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Meanwhile, Destroyer, Aircraft Carrier, Bomber vs 2 Fighters, Aircraft Carrier, Battleship, 4 Transports may get you two hits. Okay. I damage the battleship and lose a fighter. I have all my transport ability and I’m only 10 IPC down while you’ve lost 43 IPC in equipment including a very nice bomber.
Well simply I didn’t assume a battleship staying behind. I thought it was going to Pearl heavy since I saw Pearl heavy being mentioned. With no battleship around, a loaded carrier + tran group can take an annoying amount of casualties. I probably wouldn’t consider it if the BB was around.
Pearl was light, but so what? I still destroyed everything and I recovered fighters with the SZ 37 Carrier in SZ 45. (Target-able by the battleship/transport, but that’s it. And that results in Defender survival with Fighter/Carrier left. But I might even just keep both fighters to ensure a better success if it goes to Round 2.)
Pearl light (3 fig 1 bomb 1 dest) has you taking 3 casualties with no bb to absorb it. That’s a dest + 2 fighters? Or dest + bomb + fighter? You destroyed everything, but 80% indicates a high amount of variation and also loss. Also if you don’t have a bb with your pickup carrier, the US might as well go out and strafe a plain carrier + 1-2 fighters with bb/tran. Good chance to knock 1-2 things out.
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You keep changing the board layout. Pick one.
Pearl Harbor: Submarine, Destroyer, 3 or 4 Fighters, Bomber vs Submarine, Aircraft Carrier, Fighter.
Most likely outcome: 3 or 4 Fighters, Bomber live. (Possible Destroyer and Submarine too, seen that a lot.)
You could even take the BB from SZ 37 and add some fighters to sink SZ 59, but I’d rather get the American fighter in China.
That leaves you with nothing in SZ 52 or a Japanese Destroyer and/or Submarine left in SZ 52.
If England goes heavy in SZ 52 and gets lucky with your submarine in SZ 45, you still have a good shot at killing everything in SZ 52 and getting away unscathed. Can’t tell you the number of times 2 fighters, carrier, submarine get 0 hits in 4 rounds of combat. But then, you may have to actually move your battleship and carrier in, and then you’ll have to send your battleship, carrier into SZ 59. Either way, you end up destroying everything and taking no serious losses. The only thing is you have to make sure to take Buryatia too so the American bomber can’t hit your transports in SZ 60, or you have to build a destroyer to protect them.
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