I Can't Repair My Battleships!

[Gargantua]

In other words , don’t worry about it because this will almost never happen.

[KaLeu]

@Krieghund:

In the example of London having fallen while Calcutta is free, UK capital ships may be repaired at any operative Allied naval base except those that are part of the UK Europe economy.  The assumption is that the cost (too small to be represented by a full IPC) is borne by the UK Pacific economy.

But under the assumption that the UK Pacific economy bears the cost, why can’t a UK capital ship be repaired at a naval base in, say, unoccupied South Africa? And if that’s so, can the South African naval base still repair non-UK capital ships?

[Krieghund]

@Herr:

@Krieghund:

In the example of London having fallen while Calcutta is free, UK capital ships may be repaired at any operative Allied naval base except those that are part of the UK Europe economy.  The assumption is that the cost (too small to be represented by a full IPC) is borne by the UK Pacific economy.

But under the assumption that the UK Pacific economy bears the cost, why can’t a UK capital ship be repaired at a naval base in, say, unoccupied South Africa?

For the same reason that UK Pacific can’t mobilize units there.  The territory is part of the Europe economy.

[Panther]

@Herr:

… And if that’s so, can the South African naval base still repair non-UK capital ships?

As long as the naval base is operational it can, provided the owner of the damaged ship has not lost his capital (which would eliminate the Purchase/Repair-Phase).

[siparo]

Great question! I can’t think of a time where we’ve played this way. Good to know for the future.

[Panther]

I have been emailed and asked for a sort of summary about the “UK-economy-repair”-subject.

For those interested I place the answer here, too:

So just to sum it up from the rules point of view:

It has been pointed out:
@rulebook:

Each of United Kingdom Europe and Pacific makes its own separate purchases and repairs.
…
An economy whose capital is held by the Axis can’t collect income, spend IPCs, or repair units."

So assuming Calcutta is in Axis’ hand and there is a damaged UK-battleship in the Pacific,
these are the questions and answers to solve the scenario:

Q: Who is the player who controls the damaged battleship?
A: It is the player controlling UK with its two economies.

Q: Does the UK-Pacific economy have a Purchase+Repair Phase?
A: No, because Calcutta is in enemy’s hand

Q: Does the UK-Europe economy have a Purchase+Repair Phase?
A: Yes, because London is still British

Q: So when and where can the damaged battleship be repaired?
A: During the Purchase+Repair Phase of the UK-Europe economy at every friendly operative naval base except British naval bases belonging to the UK-Pacific economy.

Also:

The loss of a capital does not affect the operativeness of any Naval Base. But it eliminates the Repair-Phase of that power.
So any (Non-UK) nation can use any friendly operative Naval Base, as long as the owner of the damaged ship has not lost his capital.

[KaLeu]

Thank you. At first, I was under the impression that the rule would only pertain to British naval bases. So, just to make sure, I suppose that the damaged British battleship could not be repaired at Hawaii or New Zealand (assuming those territories are in Allied hands). And what about Alaska and the Aleutians, in the somewhat unlikely case of a US naval base there?

[PainState]

Lets just put a bottom line on this discussion.

IF UK Europe falls and London is on fire AND UK Europe still have capital sips alive on the Europe map. What in the heck is the UK player doing? saving the BB and CV for a rainy day?

It is an interesting rules discussion I quess but in the big picture of the game, it is a non factor.

[PainState]

@Herr:

Thank you. At first, I was under the impression that the rule would only pertain to British naval bases. So, just to make sure, I suppose that the damaged British battleship could not be repaired at Hawaii or New Zealand (assuming those territories are in Allied hands). And what about Alaska and the Aleutians, in the somewhat unlikely case of a US naval base there?

Well this hits at the heart of A&A1940.

1940 Europe and Pacific where made as stand alone games.

Then they decided to “bridge” the two games / rule sets into a global game and have global rules at the end of each 2ed rule set. For the die hard players found on the forum it would be nice if “they” could come out with the official 1940 Global rules pack and unify everything into one book.

** the reason this discussion is even happening is that the UK is the one unique major power in the game where they have 2 capitals and thus a split empire. For every other Major power if your capital is lost, naval repair is a mute point.

[Krieghund]

@Herr:

At first, I was under the impression that the rule would only pertain to British naval bases.

That’s correct.

@Herr:

So, just to make sure, I suppose that the damaged British battleship could not be repaired at Hawaii or New Zealand (assuming those territories are in Allied hands). And what about Alaska and the Aleutians, in the somewhat unlikely case of a US naval base there?

Yes, it could be repaired at any non-UK base, anywhere in the world.  It’s only the UK bases that are restricted.

[Panther]

@Krieghund:

@Herr:

At first, I was under the impression that the rule would only pertain to British naval bases.

That’s correct.

@Herr:

So, just to make sure, I suppose that the damaged British battleship could not be repaired at Hawaii or New Zealand (assuming those territories are in Allied hands). And what about Alaska and the Aleutians, in the somewhat unlikely case of a US naval base there?

Yes, it could be repaired at any non-UK base, anywhere in the world.  It’s only the UK bases that are restricted.

So UK is privileged over any other nation?
While every other nation can’t repair anywhere when losing its capital, UK - losing one of its capitals - can repair everywhere around the world (regardless of Europe or Pacific economy/side) except at those restricted (by economy that lost its capital) few British Naval Bases?

[Krieghund]

@P@nther:

So UK is privileged over any other nation?

It’s different, having two economies.

@P@nther:

While every other nation can’t repair anywhere when losing its capital, UK - losing one of its capitals - can repair everywhere around the world (regardless of Europe or Pacific economy/side) except at those restricted (by economy that lost its capital) few British Naval Bases?

Yes, but it’s in the same boat as everyone else if it loses both capitals.

[Panther]

Great, thank you and Herr KaLeun for confirming that / bringing it up.
I have added that to the above summary accordingly.

[simon33]

Wow, this rule is confusing for the UK!

Effectively, Battleships and CVs are UK_Pacific units when on the Pacific board and UK_Europe units when on the Europe map. Is that in the rulebook? Perhaps it is:

@Pac:

Purchase and Repair
Each of United Kingdom Europe and Pacific makes its own separate purchases and repairs.

[Requester45]

In that case you would literally have to track where each of your ships moves for each economy. Example being if the battleship that starts in sz37 on the Pacific map were to move to the Europe side of the board what is the effect on it etc.

[Panther]

@simon33:

Wow, this rule is confusing for the UK!

Effectively, Battleships and CVs are UK_Pacific units when on the Pacific board and UK_Europe units when on the Europe map. Is that in the rulebook? Perhaps it is:

@Pac:

Purchase and Repair
Each of United Kingdom Europe and Pacific makes its own separate purchases and repairs.

@Requester45:

In that case you would literally have to track where each of your ships moves for each economy. Example being if the battleship that starts in sz37 on the Pacific map were to move to the Europe side of the board what is the effect on it etc.

Actually Krieghund’s clarification makes it easier:
As (different from any other power) every damaged British capital ship can be repaired at every allied operative Naval Base (regardless where in the world) as well as at any British Naval Base belonging to the economy that still holds its regional capital.

[GeneralHandGrenade]

No you guys are misunderstanding I think. Basically what he is trying to say is that you can’t repair a UK Capital Ship at a UK naval base on the side of the board where they lost their capital. They can repair it on the other side of the board on a UK naval base or any friendly naval base anywhere in the world. UK units are not tied to their board of origin whatsoever. Only the money is tied to the economy on each side of the board. That’s why you can’t repair it at a UK naval base on the side of the board that has no money. Because the units are not tied to that fallen capital, it can still be repaired at any naval base due to the fact they still have at least one economy to draw on.

Panther explains it quite simply. It’s not rocket science.

[simon33]

@Requester45:

In that case you would literally have to track where each of your ships moves for each economy. Example being if the battleship that starts in sz37 on the Pacific map were to move to the Europe side of the board what is the effect on it etc.

That’s not what I was thinking of. Units belong to the economy that they are in, in the case of the uk.

[KaLeu]

Thanks, Krieghund and P@nther. It’s good to know that it works this way. But, having said that, I can’t really figure out why it works that way.

In the example given:
(a) A non-British base on the Pacific side of the board can repair a British ship, so apparently, the UK repair capacity is unimpaired (we’re assuming that London pays for it);
(b) Also, a British base on the Pacific side of the board can repair a non-British ship, so apparently, the repair capacity of the base itself is also unimpaired.

So while I’d be the last one to challenge the authority of the two of you, I really see no reason for it other than this specific rule.

[Panther]

@Herr:

Thanks, Krieghund and P@nther. It’s good to know that it works this way. But, having said that, I can’t really figure out why it works that way.

In the example given:
(a) A non-British base on the Pacific side of the board can repair a British ship, so apparently, the UK repair capacity is unimpaired (we’re assuming that London pays for it);
(b) Also, a British base on the Pacific side of the board can repair a non-British ship, so apparently, the repair capacity of the base itself is also unimpaired.

Great questions, Herr Kaleun.

Actually the (ship) ‘repair capacity’ of a nation is simply based on the presence of a (UK) / the (other powers) capital and the ‘repair capacity’ of a naval base is exclusively influenced by bombing, no way by the loss of capitals.

When solving the scenario(s) we assume the damaged ship being at a (friendly) operative base.
So it is “only” the presence of a capital (in case of UK) respectively the capital (other powers) that additionally determines the ability to repair.

Hope that helps.
In case your questions go deeper, asking why it is this way and why the ( intact ) repair capacity of the naval bases have not been taken into account when creating the rules, I remember Krieghund saying “It must hurt losing a capital”. I am sure he will comment if there are additional reasons behind it…