Sea lion

[happynewyear1945]

Situation;

j1 DoW on America,

America no longer neutral, it can move planes and ships onto the UK, because it is no longer neutral,

G3 Sea Lion,

Germany is still not at war with America/nor DoW america,

I believe the american units would just leave on america turn,

Thoughts?

[Requester45]

I believe the US would need to declare war on Germany in order to put its units in the UK. It can Dow Germany after a J1 because it has the ability to declare war on any Axis power after an unprovoked DOW.

[happynewyear1945]

Page 15

Neutral Powers: When a power is not at war with
anyone, it is neutral. Powers that begin the game
neutral, such as the United States and the Soviet
Union, aren’t initially part of the Allies or the Axis. The
Axis powers are on the opposite side of these neutral
powers, but they are not yet considered enemies.
While a power remains neutral, it operates under
even tighter restrictions. A neutral power can’t move
land or air units into or through neutral territories. It
can’t move units into or through territories or onto
ships belonging to another power or use another
power’s naval bases, nor can another power move
land or air units into or through its territories or onto
its ships or use its naval bases.

So when Japan Attacks America it is no longer neutral. As far as i understand that mean america can move onto UK and not be at war with Germany

[Requester45]

if the United States lands units in the UK, it is a DOW on Germany and Italy.

[happynewyear1945]

Can you show me where that rule is?

[seancb]

America is immediately able to declare war on Germany after the J1 DOW. America plays after Japan so they can just boogie right over to UK and any other allied areas including ANZAC as well as park next to Japanese islands.

No problems here.

[rydbirkjr]

@happynewyear1945:

Can you show me where that rule is?

You posted it yourself:

A neutral power can�t move
land or air units into or through neutral territories. It
can�t move units into or through territories or onto
ships belonging to another power…

Since the UK belongs to UK, if US lands planes or units in the UK, it must have declared war beforehand.

[Requester45]

Europe rule book Pg. 22 Under Where Units Can Move Air Units: “An air unit must end its move in an eligible landing space. Air units can land in any territory that was friendly (but not friendly neutral) at the start of the current turn.” further down it says " If your power isn’t at war, you can’t move your air units into territories or onto aircraft carriers belonging to another friendly power."

[happynewyear1945]

@seancb:

America is immediately able to declare war on Germany after the J1 DOW. America plays after Japan so they can just boogie right over to UK and any other allied areas including ANZAC as well as park next to Japanese islands.

No problems here.

Yes i understand America CAN declare war on Germany. That is not the question.

What happens to American Aircraft on the UK after G3 Sea Lion, while Germany is Not at war with America.

[happynewyear1945]

@happynewyear1945:

@seancb:

America is immediately able to declare war on Germany after the J1 DOW. America plays after Japan so they can just boogie right over to UK and any other allied areas including ANZAC as well as park next to Japanese islands.

No problems here.

Yes i understand America CAN declare war on Germany. That is not the question.

What happens to American Aircraft on the UK after G3 Sea Lion, while Germany is Not at war with America.

America would be at war with Japan, and not Germay

[happynewyear1945]

@Requester45:

Europe rule book Pg. 22 Under Where Units Can Move Air Units: “An air unit must end its move in an eligible landing space. Air units can land in any territory that was friendly (but not friendly neutral) at the start of the current turn.” further down it says " If your power isn’t at war, you can’t move your air units into territories or onto aircraft carriers belonging to another friendly power."

The states is Not Neutral in this situation, it is at war with Japan

[Requester45]

Yes it is at war with Japan which lifts its restrictions against Japan only. The US would need to be at war with Germany and Italy as well (all axis powers) in order to land in friendly territories. This would include the Pacific side of the map. The US while only at war with Japan, can only attack Japan and move its navy into sea zones other than the ones off of the coast of US territories.

[PainState]

@happynewyear1945:

@seancb:

America is immediately able to declare war on Germany after the J1 DOW. America plays after Japan so they can just boogie right over to UK and any other allied areas including ANZAC as well as park next to Japanese islands.

No problems here.

Yes i understand America CAN declare war on Germany. That is not the question.

What happens to American Aircraft on the UK after G3 Sea Lion, while Germany is Not at war with America.

I think the real question is: how did you get USA aircraft to the UK while the USA is still neutral and not at war? Until USA is at war it cannot move units into UK or any territory that is not a USA original territory.

Once again this scenario makes no logical sense. Under what scenario can you conceive that the USA can DOW all the Axis powers and elects not to?

IF Japan goes J1 against the USA the logical course of action for the USA is then to declare war on Germany/Italy on the USA turn. There is no scenario that makes sense for the USA not to declare war on Germany/Italy.

The main draw back for the Axis with a J1 DOW opening move on the USA is that the USA is now at war with everyone and ramps it production up to the 70’s.

[Panther]

This is the relevant part of the rulebook here:

@rulebook:

Political Situation: The United States begins the game at war with no one. In addition to the normal restrictions (see
“Powers Not at War with One Another,” page 15), while it’s not at war with Japan, the United States may not move
any units into or through China or end the movement of its sea units in sea zones that are adjacent to Japan-controlled
territories. While not at war with Germany or Italy, the United States may end the movement of its sea units on the Europe
map only in sea zones that are adjacent to U.S. territories, with one exception: U.S. warships (not transports) may also
conduct long-range patrols into sea zone 102. The United States may not declare war on any Axis power unless an Axis
power either declares war on it first or captures London or any territory in North America, or Japan makes an unprovoked
declaration of war against the UK or ANZAC, after which it may declare war on any or all Axis powers on its following
turn. However, if it’s not yet at war by the Collect Income phase of its third turn, the United States may declare war on any
or all Axis powers at the beginning of that phase. This is an exception to the rules for declaring war (see “Declaring War,”
page 12), which may normally be done only at the beginning of the Combat Move phase.

So a J1 DOW on USA has the effect that USA may DOW on Italy and/or Germany on US1. At this point this US DOW is mandatory for enabling the USA to extend the range of their units on the Europe side of the map and to land in UK. When Germany attacks UK, UK and US defend together.

HTH :-)

[happynewyear1945]

@P@nther:

This is the relevant part of the rulebook here:

@rulebook:

Political Situation: The United States begins the game at war with no one. In addition to the normal restrictions (see
“Powers Not at War with One Another,” page 15), while it’s not at war with Japan, the United States may not move
any units into or through China or end the movement of its sea units in sea zones that are adjacent to Japan-controlled
territories. While not at war with Germany or Italy, the United States may end the movement of its sea units on the Europe
map only in sea zones that are adjacent to U.S. territories, with one exception: U.S. warships (not transports) may also
conduct long-range patrols into sea zone 102. The United States may not declare war on any Axis power unless an Axis
power either declares war on it first or captures London or any territory in North America, or Japan makes an unprovoked
declaration of war against the UK or ANZAC, after which it may declare war on any or all Axis powers on its following
turn. However, if it’s not yet at war by the Collect Income phase of its third turn, the United States may declare war on any
or all Axis powers at the beginning of that phase. This is an exception to the rules for declaring war (see “Declaring War,”
page 12), which may normally be done only at the beginning of the Combat Move phase.

So a J1 DOW on USA has the effect that USA may DOW Italy and/or Germany on US1. This US DOW is mandatory for enabling the USA to extend the range of their units on the Europe side of the map and to land in UK. When Germany attacks UK, UK and US defend together.

HTH :-)

Ya that is what i thought. The reason i was asking this question is my friend was playing a Triple_A Global 1940 2nd and this situation happened. I guess it was a glitch.

thanks panther

[Requester45]

Thanks P@nther. That’s what I thought it was.

[happynewyear1945]

thanks for everyone that commented.

[GeneralHandGrenade]

The US has absolutely no reason not to declare war on Germany and Italy after a J1. I’m not sure what you’re debating about. Declare war and move your green stuff wherever you want in the Atlantic.

If you can get your fighter from Eastern US to London and the UK has done everything it can to defend itself, then it would probably be a good idea to do that. The fighter would be eating away at the German aircraft. Even if the Americans lost the fighter, as long as they’re taking German air with them it is a good trade for the Allies. That’s fewer planes to assault Russia and Allied ships in the Atlantic and the �Med. You can get your fighters to London by landing it on Iceland US1 and then London US2.

You can also do something like this, which would be enhanced is there was a J1;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X6LjB8bCbw

[Requester45]

Agreed GHG. And US fighters couldnt make it to UK anyway in 1 turn.

[PainState]

The “real” question then becomes in regards to Sea Lion is this. IF Japan goes J1 does that eliminate Germany from performing Sea Lion later than G2? The USA has a lot of options at its disposal at the start of the game + their Turn 1 build to shut down Sea Lion dead in its tracks if the USA wants to. If the USA cannot stop the G2 dice fest in London and Germany takes it the USA will coming storming in on USA3 and just retake it.

Seems like a lot of dead German IPC in units for a one turn sacking of London.