@P@nther:
So in my scenario the defending sub can submerge and avoid taking the hit ???
No. The decision to submerge is made in the “Press Attack or Retreat Step”.
This is before rolling the dice again.
Ah! Enlightenment. Many thanks :-)
Another German Navy Opener
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The DD attack on the Jap trans is 70%-72%.
That means it fails statistically about 1 of 4 or 1 of 5 times ?
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Lucifer, statistically you are rigth.
But as I said I have never seen those DD sunk without killing the Japanese TRN.Statistically speaking we will see it one day. Maybe UK players in our playgroup has always been lucky.
The day the TRN will sink the UK DD, we will learn to send other shi pwith the DD.
Maybe the entire Indian Fleet!!! -
I’ve seen the DD and the AC sunk with the Transport alive. Not often, but I’ve seen it (like twice this year.)
Anyway, if you attack with a DD you have an 85% chance to sink the transport and a 30% chance to be sunk by the transport. However, you have a 100% chance to be sunk before England moves again, I guarantee that!
I’m all about conserving what you have and not wasting it on futile attacks if at all possible. The Transport in SZ 59 is nice to kill if you are backing it up with an attack on Borneo and New Guinea. (2 Inf, Fig to Borneo, 2 Inf to New Guinea, both statistically in your favor.) Followed by an attack on the SZ 45 submarine, for good measure and a strong American build in SZ 55 to drive the point home that Japan’s going on defensive maneuvers this game.
But unless you are willing to commit to that level of aggressiveness to Japan, I think the better choice is to leave the transport (one that would be rebuilt anyway costing only 8 to Japan and 12 to England minimum) in favor of building fighters for a few rounds and then having a full fleet with a very strong air force from then on.
It’s opportunity cost, I guess.
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Jennifer, in may country there is an ancient proverb that say:
“Who hits first, hits two times!”
I know that the DD is doomed to die. But it not sunk by itself. Japanese have to attack it.
But IMHO it is important to kill sz59 TRN. For two reason.
For short term planning it avoid the use of it for the Japanese and keep the India safe in the first turn. It disrupt positioning of Japanese fleet, force the use of at least a BB and 1 fig to kill the DD, and leave the Indian Ocean Fleet without immediate threat.
For long term planning it is a disruption of Japanese landing, introduce a delay, and is one more TRN that Jpanese have to buy instead of having it ready to use. If I could sink also the Japanese TRN in sz60 for sure I would kill it! -
I’m all about conserving what you have and not wasting it on futile attacks if at all possible.
And then in the same breath you say blitz a German tank to Archangel? :wink:
I do see where you’re coming from actually, I like to conserve units, and it’s a good move to keep in mind if Germany made some impossible fleet to crack. I’m just not sure I can wait that long (UK5) to land safely in Germany/E. Europe/Karelia.
Jennifer, in may country there is an ancient proverb that say:
“Who hits first, hits two times!”
Romulus, you are full of sh!
JK lol, I just thought since you asked us to say that in the other thread, that I would for the fun of it. What country do you come from anyways?
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I am Italian. From Benevento a very small Town in the South of Italy.
Being Italian I have to say that I have only a barely sufficient preparation in english. And I am notoriously an optimist! :)
Growing up I am forced by my work to read and write in english.
But you know… we italian reall do not speak english we speak English-Iano! (That is Enhlish + Italiano)
Maybe because our language is difficult and really different from the English, more similar to French.
French and Italian should be a funn ylanguage for you. FOr us all is Male or Female, we have no “it”, “its” etc.Moreover, other European say that “to stop an Italian from speaking you have only to bind his hands on his back!”.
This because we use a lot of gesture with our hands when speaking.
I must say that it is a thing that help me, when I am abroad, gesture allow me to be understood more easy.
Internet forum like this are sligthly difficults for me.
I can not use gesture! I have to write and sometime I am not able to communicate correctly.
Moreover Italian is a language with more useless thing that we add to sentences, that also are long. (As you can see looking at my posts :) )
So why I am on AxisAndAllies.org?
Because A&A is my preferred boardgame and becasue the forum is in english!
Yeah, I have still the hope to learn english… as I said I am an optimist! -
I tend to go HARD on SZ59… Entire SZ35 fleet. It gives me a reasonable chance to take out both the TRN, and a Jap ship or FIG (unless he brings both BB’s, but that leaves his TRN’s unprotected or out of position for J2 and weakens the Pearl strike…)
So the UK uses SZ35 FIG, TRN and SUB from 40 to attack the Japan SZ45 SUB. Odds are for a kill with FIG and SUB attacking.
1 TRN, 1 AC, 1 DST against SZ59, usually cleared w/o loss
FIG lands on USA AC in SZ52.What is the result?
1. Japan has 1 less attacking unit and fodder naval asset for SZ52
2. An extra unit with a defense of 4 in SZ52
3. A living UK SUB in SZ45 that can go after any unguarded Japan TRN placed in SZ60
4. 3 units with a defense of 7 in SZ59 that need to be taken out lest they join up with the SUB and TRN from SZ45
5. A living UK TRN that can raid Japan’s islands as they are emptied.So… Japan will take 1 more hit in SZ52 on average, MAYBE 2. That is 1 less unit that USA need to battle on the Counter to wipe out half of teh Japan Fleet.
Japan has to devote more than just AC and BB from SZ37 to re-clear SZ59, either the BB form SZ60 (meaning Japan can;t do “Pearl Heavy” and also meaning new TRN’s are going to have to be placed in SZ61 or get pounded by the SUB/TRN from SZ45) or a FIG (one less FIG for China…)You can see the result in the 2-on-2 game Bo and I are currently playing. Even with good Japan dice on J1, as we move in to Round 2, Japan had to place their TRNs in SZ61 instead of 60, the SZ52 fleet is dead, and China was taken so lightly that the Americans counter-attacked and liberated it on US1. And Japan is down half their fleet (missing their SUB, DST, 1 AC, 1 BB, 1 TRN) and half their AF (almost, down 2 FIG, 1 BOM out of 7 initial aircraft). Japan only has 4 INF in Asia at the start of J2, instead of 4+ in China alone.
$103 IPC’s of Japan Navy/AF killed and $15 IPC of INF killed. And Japan is back to $30 IPC current income for the start of their J2 move.And with some shifting of USSR forces, India is secure for at least J2, Japan has to re-attack China, and Bury, though winnable, will now take a concentration of nearly the entire Japan force to take it with barely any land units surviving… all for “$1 of permafrost” as Jen calls it.
That is a HELL of a slow-down of the Imperial Forces, giving Russia a full extra turn to go all out on Germany as the US and UK gear up in Europe…
And UK still has a SUB and TRN floating around…
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Switch… do you have some ancestor called Horatio Nelson or Chester W. Nimitz?
I am considering your strategies and I must say that it really can create a lot of problem to Japanese. They have to run from the beginning!
I would create problem to Japanese but… this is really bad! :evil:
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So the UK uses SZ35 FIG, TRN and SUB from 40 to attack the Japan SZ45 SUB. Odds are for a kill with FIG and SUB attacking.
1 TRN, 1 AC, 1 DST against SZ59, usually cleared w/o loss
FIG lands on USA AC in SZ52.Is this one of those things it took the year I was gone to come up with? That’s a standard KJF opening! :evil:
The con is that Anglo-Egypt isn’t getting countered, but maybe your game can allow that to happen for whatever reason.
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It is a balanced open, and it lets Germany run a bit in Africa, yes. But not much with a UK/US move into Africa.
More details after our game unfolds a bit… we just took a massive setback in SZ5… lost 3 FIGs and only killed a SUB (the two games out of a thousand odds result…)
I can;t afford to give any additional info to our opponents about our plans…
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I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again.
Attacking SZ 59 is the same as pissing in the wind. Sure, you’ll kill a lowly transport who never did anything to England and couldn’t do a dang thing to England if it’s bloody life depended on it! Now, if you are putting an IC in India, sure, kill the tranny so she can’t bring forces to knock over your little mini-capitol on round 1. But you better darn well be sure you are backing that maneuver with Russian and American forces (and US ICs in China and Sinkiang!) so you can keep Japan off the mainland forever!
Now, more realistically, if you bring those forces home, you have a full fleet and can spend your “extra” money on additional air power. Air power that’s going to give the Axis headaches when trying to over throw Moscow/Stalingrad. Air power that can hopefully buy you time to reclaim Africa and build up land forces in Moscow.
Anyway, to the SZ 5 question, why are so many people amazed when they lose 2 or 3 air craft to the Sub, Sub, Trn, Des defenders?
3+3+4 = 10, 1 2/3rds hits in Round 1
1+3 = 4 2/3rds hits in Round 1.Odds of Round 1:
2 Submarines Sunk
1 Fighter Destroyed3+4 = 7, 1 1/6ths hits in Round 1
1+3 = 4 2/3rds hits in Round 1.Odds of Round 2:
1 Transport sunk
1 Fighter destroyed4 Attack
vs
3 DefenseOdds of Round 3
1 Destroyer Sunk
1 Bomber destroyed.Result: No British Air Force, no Northern German Fleet.
Here’s what Frood says:
Attacker Survives: 30%
Defender Survives: 20%(And, for the record if you do it round by round, frood gives the same casualties I just listed by doing Low Luck and some conservative rounding for the defender, liberal rounding for the attacker.)
Switch’s result being a really absurd result for the battle, but not completely impossible. (as Germany I’d kiss you if I had that result. I’d SOO be sailing out past Denmark after that!)
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UK, USA and URSS are on the same side. Even if the TRN could do nothing directly to the UK it may be used to do “something” to the Russian or to the USA.
I believe that absence of the TRN in J1 introduces a delay in Japanese landings.
UK cannot wait round 4 to land in North Europe. The landing has to be performed before. Or UK buy 1 AC (that is really useful IMHO) or USA build 1-2 AC to protect the Allied shipping. Indian Fleet is too far and so need something of useful to do.
Creating prolem to the Japanese is a good option. -
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again.
Attacking SZ 59 is the same as pissing in the wind. ….
Anyway, to the SZ 5 question…Again, you are assuming that the ALLIES always are running KGF.
This is not a valid assumption.
When it can be run, KJF is much more deadly to the axis, IMHO. The reason? It is much easier to contain Germany than it is to contain Japan when the allies focus on one of the two Axis powers.
I will attack SZ5 when running a KJF and I can land in Africa round 1 safely. The Indian IC is a required build for KJF, and then I am not really adding much defense to UK round 1 buy. I want to kill that sz5 transport so London is safe.
Also killing sz59 tpt is vital in a KJF game to keep as many units from asia as possible.
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I believe that even if the Allies goes for KGF they should slow down Japan a little in the beginning gaining useful time.
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I will attack SZ5 when running a KJF and I can land in Africa round 1 safely. The Indian IC is a required build for KJF, and then I am not really adding much defense to UK round 1 buy. I want to kill that sz5 transport so London is safe.
How many rnds do you usually keep your IC in India?
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The sz5 attack is about 73% according to tripleA BC. 1,3 attacking units left.
With low luck it’s 77%.
I prefer the percentage numbers instead of the ones you listed, Ivanova…. :-)
That means generally 3 out of 4 attacks is success.
Aproximately same as the G sub attack in sz1.
Frood, you have any other numbers? -
I will attack SZ5 when running a KJF and I can land in Africa round 1 safely. The Indian IC is a required build for KJF, and then I am not really adding much defense to UK round 1 buy. I want to kill that sz5 transport so London is safe.
How many rnds do you usually keep your IC in India?
I only buy an Indian IC if I am doing KJF. In this case, the allies never lose the IC.
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I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again.
Attacking SZ 59 is the same as pissing in the wind. ….
Anyway, to the SZ 5 question…Again, you are assuming that the ALLIES always are running KGF.
This is not a valid assumption.
When it can be run, KJF is much more deadly to the axis, IMHO. The reason? It is much easier to contain Germany than it is to contain Japan when the allies focus on one of the two Axis powers.
I will attack SZ5 when running a KJF and I can land in Africa round 1 safely. The Indian IC is a required build for KJF, and then I am not really adding much defense to UK round 1 buy. I want to kill that sz5 transport so London is safe.
Also killing sz59 tpt is vital in a KJF game to keep as many units from asia as possible.
I will attack SZ5 when running a KJF and I can land in Africa round 1 safely. The Indian IC is a required build for KJF, and then I am not really adding much defense to UK round 1 buy. I want to kill that sz5 transport so London is safe.
How many rnds do you usually keep your IC in India?
I only buy an Indian IC if I am doing KJF. In this case, the allies never lose the IC.
How are you attacking me for saying that the Allies always go KGF and then lauding the point I made about KJF by building the IC in India if you are killing the transport in SZ 59?
Common, you can’t keep switching arguments half way through.
Fact: I said that the SZ 59 attack is only worthwhile in a KJF situation where you build an IC on India and only because it prevents Japan from taking India on Round 1. (No Battleships to assist.)
Fact: I said that if you are NOT going KJF, then the attack on the SZ 59 transport was about as effective as pissing in the wind. I shoulda said it was even less effective then a space heater in hell because to be honest, you are throwing away a major portion of your fleet for a transport. When in the world would you make that trade in any other situation? Would you attack a British Transport with a German Carrier and Destroyer and Fighter off the coast of England in the first few rounds of the game when England has 2 Battleships + fodder to go sink you? Hell no. Because it’s a bad trade. It’s still a bad trade, you’ve just convinced yourself it does more then modestly slow the Japanese forces. And, to be honest, I don’t even think it modestly slows diddly. My builds are the same if I have the SZ 59 Tran and if I don’t. 3 Transports, 2 Infantry. Either way, you’re getting 8 units a round into Asia from J2 onward. The “extra” transport will just save me 8 IPC building an extra to go island clearing for me. That’s it.
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@Cmdr:
Attacking SZ 59 is the same as pissing in the wind. ….
Now, if you are putting an IC in India, sure, kill the tranny so she can’t bring forces to knock over your little mini-capitol on round 1. But you better darn well be sure you are backing that maneuver with Russian and American forces (and US ICs in China and Sinkiang!) so you can keep Japan off the mainland forever!Now, more realistically, if you bring those forces home, …
This doesn’t sound like a ringing endorsement for killing the SZ59 transport to me.
It sure sounds condescending to a KJF strategy to me…however, you did give the sz59 caveat, even if only half heartedly :evil: :roll: :wink:
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I thought I was pretty whole hearted. If going KJF then IC in India and kill the transport to protect the IC in India. If not going KJF, get the heck out of there and leave the transport alone.
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