Yea, KAF is the sole reason people started building infantry in W. USA and walking to E. Canada. Slower assault into Europe, but Japan has no real ability to do anything to N. America.
KJF etc.
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I used to pull Indian fleet back to Atlantic, while relying on USA fleet for coverage of the UK Home Fleet, ferrying units to Africa in first turns.
Problems arise. Russia is alone against German. USA is alone against Japan in the Pacific. UK fleet cruising the Africa is doing nothing of useful for more than 4 turns.
Last times I played England, I used my Indian Fleet against the Japanese, and slowly built up the English Home Fleet.
My objective is to estabilish US shuck to Algeria from the first turn, supported by British, and by 3rd turn swith UK landings to Norway.
Elimination of Baltic Fleet may be executed on 2nd or 3rd turn.For the strafing argument I agree with Jen, those British fighters are precious for British.
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Russia is not alone against Germany and Japan if you are forcing Germany to dedicate forces to Africa and garrisoning S. Europe and W. Europe. This allows Russia to stack Sinkiang and Caucasus while trading Ukraine and probably W. Russia or Belorussia. Remember, this is only a short term solution. Those naval units from the Pacific will get to the Atlantic in very rapid order!
However, if you are not comfortable with this arrangement, you can always invade Borneo and New Guinea on UK 1 (1.414 odds to win in both battles, not bad odds and it’s +5 income from islands which slows Japan down significantly.)
I, personally, just don’t recommend it anymore. That’s two transports you’re going to lose that you could be sailing for England, thus saving you 16 IPC.
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Russia is not alone against Germany and Japan if you are forcing Germany to dedicate forces to Africa and garrisoning S. Europe and W. Europe. This allows Russia to stack Sinkiang and Caucasus while trading Ukraine and probably W. Russia or Belorussia. Remember, this is only a short term solution. Those naval units from the Pacific will get to the Atlantic in very rapid order!
However, if you are not comfortable with this arrangement, you can always invade Borneo and New Guinea on UK 1 (1.414 odds to win in both battles, not bad odds and it’s +5 income from islands which slows Japan down significantly.)
I, personally, just don’t recommend it anymore. That’s two transports you’re going to lose that you could be sailing for England, thus saving you 16 IPC.
IMHO in round 1 and 2 Allies may not think to attack WE or SE. German player should be very distracted to allow that.
I intend that Russia is alone in the sense that UK/US going in Africa means no reinforcement for URSS in first two three turns.
Yes, I am experimenting in slowing Japan with UK Indian Fleet, in my last games.
I feel better using the British Indian FLeet against Japan. -
But they arn’t alone because Germany has to at least keep forces in reserve to stop an invasion of W. Europe or S. Europe (if the allies go to Africa.) Even if they don’t dedicate forces to Africa, they still have to protect against a 1-2 punch of British and American forces. That’s troops that cannot go to the Russian front.
And odds are, that’s at least 1 turn’s income in each W. Europe and S. Europe.
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Just focus on Africa for 3 turns and bring the AC, DD, TRN, TRN, SS from the Pacific/Indian oceans to the Atlantic.
That’s one too many turns for my liking. Is that all it takes to stall you? If I don’t build any German navy, and leave the Baltic there, you will tilt at Africa for 3 turns? O_O?
UK FIGs are more valuable to UK long term than the Baltic fleet is to Germany. Losing FIGs to kill the Baltic Fleet is a waste of Allied air power.
The Baltic fleet + luftwaffe could be used to take out 3-4 transports, which is a turn’s worth of building transports that you must replace. You don’t however have to replace British air.
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Depending on the situation at Anglo-Egypt, I would or would not try to blow up the German fleet at Baltic right away with UK air. (If the UK bomber was needed at Anglo-Egypt, though, I’d probably do something else).
Either way, though, I’m always looking to kill the Baltic fleet before I get the Allied Atlantic navy really going. 3 fighters with UK is reasonable in some cases, depending on the German move.
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If you don’t build a German navy I’ll land in Africa anyway, to force you to over commit or surrender there and then blow the hell out of your navy with the combined fleet.
Africa’s just too convenient a place to unify Allied fleets and prevent any Sea Lion attempts.
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Losing FIGs to kill the Baltic Fleet is a waste of Allied air power
Switch! I think it´s here you are getting it wrong :-D :-D
hint Don´t loose them :wink:
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Africa’s just too convenient a place to unify Allied fleets and prevent any Sea Lion attempts.
I know you like to keep saying this, and it’s the correct strategy in many situations, but it’s not the point here. The point is, you’re spending THREE turns in Africa just because you don’t want to lose 1-2 fighters to the Baltic fleet? It will turn into 4 turns because the Baltic will just fly out to stall a landing in Norway after you’ve been tilting in Algeria for 3 turns. That’s too many turns not getting any troops into Europe.
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Who’s spending 3 turns in Africa to save fighters per se?
Allied fleets to SZ 12. Allied fleets to SZ 6 with massive British fighters to SZ 5 killing all in one round of battle and maybe taking a hit.
Very easy to do. That’s only 1 round to Africa.
Easier is to just unify your fleets and pump Africa heavy while Russia holds Germany off, which is really easy to do for Russia, especially with Germany without African taxes to fund it’s war machine. Then you move your combined fleets up north and dare the Germans to attack you.
Even if they put out submarines as pickets, it does nothing. Just kills their submarines since most of what you want to do is done in the NCM portion anyway. Sink or force them to submerge with a fighter and sail through.
You’re hung up on the idea that the allies automatically lose if England isn’t landing 4-6 units a round in North Asia by UK 2 with America landing the same by USA 3. Not so. Russia is perfectly capable of keeping Germany at bay by itself for 5 or 6 rounds before retreating back a rank.
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Just focus on Africa for 3 turns and bring the AC, DD, TRN, TRN, SS from the Pacific/Indian oceans to the Atlantic.
From your own post, Jen.
You’re hung up on the idea that the allies automatically lose if England isn’t landing 4-6 units a round in North Asia by UK 2 with America landing the same by USA 3.
Wrong, I think it’s OK for the UK to be in Europe by Round 3. The way I understand your direct quote was that you’re focusing with both UK and US on Africa for 3 turns, which means a UK landing on round 4. My mistake if you didn’t explain well enough.
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Round 1:
England, America, Russia to SZ 12/Algeria
Round 2:
America to Algeria
England, America, Russia to SZ 6/NorwayRound 3:
America to England
England, America, Russia to SZ 4/Karelia/ArchangelskBy this point, your fleets from Indian Ocean and Pacific Ocean should be near Brazil and North Africa, a move away from England in any case.
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Round 1:
England, America, Russia to SZ 12/Algeria
If you do, your fleet is finished. 1 bb + 2 tran + 3 subs + 1 dest + 5 fighters + 1 bomber, or some lesser combination thereof, to kill 4 tran 1 bb 1 dest 1 sub 1 car 2 fig.
Round 2:
America to Algeria
England, America, Russia to SZ 6/NorwayWith what fleet? If you didn’t get Algeria on turn one, then you go there on the second turn, which is extremely likely considering the massive force waiting for you if you try to land on turn one. If you go there on the second turn, I’ll simply picket a sub in SZ7 to stop the UK from taking Norway on the third turn, since you didn’t bother to pay any attention to the German fleet. Sure you can move noncombat to SZ6, but you can’t land anything there with UK since that has to be a combat move.
There must be some detail that you’re not explaining that allows you the confidence of trying to land so soon. It simply seems like you feel you can expose so many transports. I’m not even sure what your build is. Any car/dest? Or neither of each? Mind you what Im’ doing is running the Baltic and linking it with the one sub from SZ8…you’ve said you dont’ like strafing with planes, and you changed your mind about trying to “counter” with a car/dest build, so now what?
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SZ5 cannot reach SZ12 on G2, without advance German fleet movements, which would tip off the UK and USA that something was up, to which they would respond appropriately…
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What would be the appropriate response for you, Switch and Jen, if the Baltic does try to run away? I have my own idea which is to strafe the Baltic fleet if it’s trying to escape, but it seems like Jen at least would never consider it. Simply allowing the Baltic to run away can majorly impact things later, even if the only thing is to make the Americans overbuild fighters/navy. At the cost of 0 German naval IPCs! : )
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If they run, I will probably hit them HARD with UK and wipe them out (all available naval and air forces of UK against the Baltic Fleet (plus SZ8 SUB as you advocated).
Battle is either:
2 TRN, 1 BB, 2 FIG, 1 BOM (if Germans are in SZ7)
1 TRN, 1 BB, 2 FIG, 1 BOM (if Termans are in SZ6)Against 1 TRN, 3 SUB, 1 DST
The odds are that UK survives with:
SZ7: 2 FIG, 1 BOM, 1 BB
SZ8: 2 FIG, 1 BB (losing BOM before FIGs)Then drop a build of an AC and TRN in the battle sea zone, land FIGs on the AC, move the Russian SUB to join the fleet and DARE the Germans to come after my fleet on G2 usign only Luftwaffe for the attack (the Med Fleet is getting no where near that battle…)
5 FIG, 1 BOM vs 1 TRN, 1 SUB, 1 AC, 2 FIG, 1 BB
Only 26% odds for Germany, at the cost of the entire Luftwaffe. -
Then drop a build of an AC and TRN in the battle sea zone, land FIGs on the AC, move the Russian SUB to join the fleet and DARE the Germans to come after my fleet on G2 usign only Luftwaffe for the attack (the Med Fleet is getting no where near that battle…)
What’re you blocking the med fleet off with? A dest or tran?
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TRN. And grabbing Algeria for the hell of it with 1 INF, 1 ARM.
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Still sounds like the best Axis opener. For buying 0 naval IPCS, you cost the Allies 3 transports and made the UK buy the carrier. At the beginning of turn 2 the UK only has 1 tran to land somewhere, meaning Germany can get farther in Africa than normal. How’s that for an “impotent” Baltic fleet? :evil:
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Still sounds like the best Axis opener. For buying 0 naval IPCS, you cost the Allies 3 transports and made the UK buy the carrier. At the beginning of turn 2 the UK only has 1 tran to land somewhere, meaning Germany can get farther in Africa than normal. How’s that for an “impotent” Baltic fleet? :evil:
Hey, what was that Baltic fleet move again?
I betchoo I can do somethin wid da Allies that will rock teh Axis . . . unless you have a really fat Axis bid someplace, so be sure to mention how much the Axis bid and where it went (also the Russian and German moves; I reserve the right to veto any Russian move that I judge to be “on crack”).
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