[Global 1940] New turn order

[Caesar-Seriona]

@Leatherneckinlv:

Should Paratroopers and Air Transports be a part of the game?
Airborne A2 D1 C4 M1 or range of plane
Air Transport A0 D0 C8 M5   2 Airborne or 1 Artillery capacity

I have experimented with the thought of paratroopers and thus I found a more use for airfields. The only way to allow paratroopers would have some kind of rules saying if you place 2 infantry on an airfield, they can “jump” and attack any space 3 moves away (or whatever you want it to be), I would then work in a rule that allows enemy fighters and AA guns to attack and if they miss, the infantry land and thus conduct battle normally OR you could balance it would saying that paratroopers can only attack territories if they are being backed by land forces since none of the allied nations ever used paratroopers exclusively for any operation and when Axis forced did it, it usually ended up in a lose for them.

As far as air transport, I could only see airfield to airfield.

Unless you physically make your own units for the game.

[Caesar-Seriona]

I also thought about the idea of militia being in the game. For one turn only, you can declare total war, and on the next turn, you may buy infantry for 1 dollar only and the attack is zero and defense is one, the unit is not allowed to leave your territory and only may be placed on your nations home territory.

[Leatherneckinlv]

In my hybrid game I do have Militia, Dutch forces in the Dutch colonies and Colonial Infantry for certain Allied countries. Germans have SS which is basically a +1 to D and they can be upgraded. So an SS Infantry can become a SS Mech Infantry for 1 IPC, SS Mech can become a SS Tank for another IPC. SS Infantry costs 3 IPC but here is what makes it more unique, Romania, Western Ukraine, Yugoslavia and Finland you may place an (1) SS Infantry in any of those territories without the need of a factory. Max purchase is 2 SS Infantry per turn and 1 upgrade

[Caesar-Seriona]

The Dutch is also a strange game. I seriously thought about buying UK pieces and paint them Orange so when the allies liberate their homeland, they return in the game.

[Leatherneckinlv]

I should take a pic of my Dutch set up on the map and post a picture….yeah I painted my Dutch pieces orange as well. My Polish are white, Axis Minors light grey, Allied Minors Celery Green…my Strict Neutrals are Ivory and SS black…Germans are dark grey

[Caesar-Seriona]

Dutch would be easy to add in the game, literally at the start of G40, they would only have one or two infantry on UK.

[Caesar-Seriona]

Plus all of their Asian colonies should have infantry and a good portion of their navy played a role against the IJN.

[Leatherneckinlv]

My set up is 1 Infantry and 1 fighter in Sumatra, 2 Infantry on Java 1, and 1 Infantry in Celebes… Navy is a Navy Base, 1 Destroyer and 1 sub in Java, a sub in Celebes and a Cruiser in Sumatra…Good idea on 2 Infantry in UK…mine doesn’t have that. They go on ANZAC turn

[Caesar-Seriona]

Yeah, don’t forget they had around several thousand men that escaped Dunkirk and made it to England. I personally wouldn’t of added the Dutch if it wasn’t for them actually having territory.

[knp7765]

Here is my setup for the new neutral Turkey.

[Caesar-Seriona]

Somewhere out there on the forms are a page about how retarded neutrals are in this game and I have worked several attempts to not only get neutrals more realistic but operate under there own rules. Such as their own political stance, having their own navy, airforce, industrial, and infantry. Even some of the pro-powers are not realistic at war. Case in point is Portugal and Iran. With Iran being the most offensive in the game, pro-allies is a complete lie. Iran was invaded by USSR and UK because it opened the Persian trade routes and their was massive fear Iran like Iraq was going to join the Axis powers and the allies didn’t like the idea of Germany and Italy getting oil.

[Leatherneckinlv]

Spain, Turkey, Iran and South America should become playable. Greece should be Pro Allied and I would split Yugoslavia into 2 with one a Pro Axis and 1 a Pro Allied. Bulgaria and Finland remain Pro Axis. Iraq becomes strict neutral
Sweden should be Pro Allied and turned to Pro Axis if Leningrad and Archangel fall.
2 IPC income for all neutrals and add 1 free infantry each turn. They don’t need factories but can place units that are locked with Naval forces being Coastal defense.

Unit builds for Neutrals as follows:
Coastal Defense Navy ( May only move once aligned )
Naval Transports same stats
Torpedo Boat Destroyer A2 D1 C5 M1
Submarines same stats
Destroyer same stats
Coastal Battleships A3 D2 C 15 M1 2 hits to destroy ( represents Cruisers, Pre-Dreadnoughts and dreadnoughts )

Air units
Fighters A3 D2 C10 M4 +1 to Motorized Infantry

Land 
AA Guns same stats
Artillery same stats
Motorized Infantry (use truck sculpts) A2 D2 C5 M2 (represents  combined independent tank battalions and mobile Infantry with limbered Artillery battalions)

[Caesar-Seriona]

Some of your neutrals doesn’t really reflect actual WWII status. Yugo is a hard one to do because of how the government ended up being divided and they had a coup over which side they joined but Germany DID invade them so them being pro allies is technically true. Spain is pro axis without a doubt, obviously they are not in this game due to making Germany more powerful however that is reality of WWII. Portugal has a defensive alliance with London so if London falls, they should join UK with their colonies. Turkey would be pro allies by politics but the allies wanted them to stay neutral for strategic reasons. Iraq was an Axis power so was Iran. Mongolia should already be part of USSR by the game rules, as Mongolia already was attacked before G40. Sweden is neural, was threatened by both sides at some point. Argentina should be the only South America pro Germany state as they were supplied and had open relations with Germany, not sure if that’s enough to make them pro Axis but enough it would be an interesting idea to work with. I always found the idea that if a country like Argentina were attack, suddenly Afganistan cares about the war when three nations tried to get them to join them and they wanted nothing to do with the war.

[Caesar-Seriona]

Also back to the Dutch army, I forgot this is G40 so the Dutch may have some units on Paris and for sure on Normandy.

[Leatherneckinlv]

This set up…makes me want an alternate rules map…I wish I had the skills to make a new map

[Caesar-Seriona]

I would too. I wanted to put together a 1937 rules and a world map based on that.

[Argothair]

I think Caesar Seriona’s last post gets at some of the big difficulties in making realistic neutrals – how do you model fear? How do you model indifference? Portugal’s sympathies were fully with Britain, but they were afraid of Spain and Italy. Spain’s sympathies were fully with Germany, but they were exhausted by their civil war and in no mood to fight anyone. Sweden probably didn’t like either side very  much, but they might have been preferred being peacefully absorbed into a British, Russian, or German empire rather than fighting a bloody and doomed war of self-defense. E.g., if Finland had already gone Soviet, how long would Sweden have held out against the Red Army? If London had already gone German, how long would Sweden have held out against the Nazis, etc.

And all of that ambiguity is before you even get into stuff like game balance.

I think if you’re looking for a scripted political game where countries do X if and only if trigger Y happens, then you might be better off with a card-driven game like Twilight Struggle, A Fire Upon the Lake, Labrynith: The War on Terror, and so on.

There might be a fix for the neutral rules in Axis & Allies, but it would have to be something simpler and more symmetrical than a laundry list of triggers.

[Caesar-Seriona]

@Argothair:

I think Caesar Seriona’s last post gets at some of the big difficulties in making realistic neutrals – how do you model fear? How do you model indifference? Portugal’s sympathies were fully with Britain, but they were afraid of Spain and Italy. Spain’s sympathies were fully with Germany, but they were exhausted by their civil war and in no mood to fight anyone. Sweden probably didn’t like either side very  much, but they might have been preferred being peacefully absorbed into a British, Russian, or German empire rather than fighting a bloody and doomed war of self-defense. E.g., if Finland had already gone Soviet, how long would Sweden have held out against the Red Army? If London had already gone German, how long would Sweden have held out against the Nazis, etc.

And all of that ambiguity is before you even get into stuff like game balance.

I think if you’re looking for a scripted political game where countries do X if and only if trigger Y happens, then you might be better off with a card-driven game like Twilight Struggle, A Fire Upon the Lake, Labrynith: The War on Terror, and so on.

There might be a fix for the neutral rules in Axis & Allies, but it would have to be something simpler and more symmetrical than a laundry list of triggers.

My idea is still better than all neutrals join the other side.

[Leatherneckinlv]

Argothair….yes, When I went to HBG to help play test a WW l game, there was a game that was also driven by event cards so to speak, Some where…hmmmm ok and some where…Blink Whaaaaaaaaaa holy smokes. They were very fun and obviously would make games unique. I do think looking at the Balkans as an example, the events there substantially effected the war. Germany was vastly affected by this in a negative way.

So how I see neutrals effecting the game is in the Med, Mid East (Oil Wars) and Balkans, alignments of Sweden, Turkey and Spain With 2 potential victory tokens being available in this theater.

I also forgot to add Militia to the land unit build of Neutrals
Militia A0 D1 C1 M0

Oil Wars for me used to be very complicated in my house rules games but since I have refined it.
Add a refinery to these territories:
Germany: Romania
Russia: Caucauses
Japan: Manchuria
US: Alaska
China: Suiynan
UKE: Persia (Must align)
UKP: Borneo ( Supports both UK economies turn 1)
Dutch: Sumatra
Italy: ( Turkey, pays 1 IPC to Turkey per turn)
Turkey: Turkey but prefer 2 territories in Turkey { Istanbul and Kars and place refinery in Kars}
ANZAC: Queensland
France: Morocco

Iraq, IndoChina, Venezuela and Saudi Arabia produce oil and can sell oil to any nation that needs it. This is a 3 IPC event during the purchase units phase. If you don’t have an oil token, -1 to movement of all units

So if you have a refinery you are considered in supply and make normal moves. Refineries are subject to SBR damage equal to max 10 damage. No damage is allowed to keep you in supply. Refinery has an airbase and AA…so planes may intercept. Treat a refinery the same way you would a factory…damage repair and all that good stuff…Oil war is a victory token

Victory Token condition: Maintain your original oil producing territory and align or capture 4 additional territories and hold for 1 full turn of your turn sequence…(ie Italy ends turn 5 through Italy ends turn 6)

[Leatherneckinlv]

I also want cities to be a separate territory so as an example the UK attacks Germany it doesn’t capture Berlin or Germany attacks United Kingdom it doesn’t capture London and etc…