Another German Navy Opener

[U-505]

@trihero:

If the Allies are so passive as to not do anything, the German fleet looks like 3 sub 2 tran 1 bb 1 dest in the Med.

Add to that a CV or CV/TP built in sz14 on G1 and that fleet becomes instantly formidable enough to venture out of the Med to menace Allied shipping.

[Jennifer]

I still refuse to believe that Germany should be wasting that kind of money on fleet.

I just finished a game where the German player kicked the allied navies out of the Atlantic by Germany 3.  He lost.  Why?  Because Russia turtled up, England and America moved in massive air force and then Russia pushed forward.  A russian infantry stack + 20 allied fighters landing behind it is NOT getting strafed by Germany.

Course, I was also annoying the ever living hell out of Japan with a sizable British navy and a small American contingent of warships.  He was able to hold off without losing more then New Guinea and E. Indies, but at the cost of not being able to push hard on Russia.

In that game, Germany should have stopped iwth fleet.  But he didnt.  he kept building just enough that I couldnt sink him with a 1, 2, 3 punch with my air force.  (not that I was going to throw away 260 IPC in fighters to do it! (7 British Fighters, 1 British Bomber, 13 American Fighters, 1 American Bomber, 3 Russian Fighters) but he did.

[trihero]

I don’t think the Germans should buy any navy, either. I did start out thinking that the Germans should always buy a carrier at first, I suppose like anyone else. It’s just one of those things you grow out of I guess, like peeing in your bed!  :? :-o :-D

[newpaintbrush]

@trihero:

I don’t think the Germans should buy any navy, either. I did start out thinking that the Germans should always buy a carrier at first, I suppose like anyone else. It’s just one of those things you grow out of I guess, like peeing in your bed!  :? :-o :-D

If you know what I mean by golden showers, you know that some people don’t grow out of peeing in their beds.  :wink:

I’m still undecided on whether or not purchasing navy for Germany’s first turn is a categorically bad decision.

[Romulus]

Considering what has been said on another thread, I am wondering about buying an AC on first turn: could it be a good counter for a KJF? (if Russia player make an opening that may support a KJF)

[Jennifer]

Nothing is a categorically bad choice for German builds.  It’s more a question of what is more effective?

[newpaintbrush]

@Jennifer:

Nothing is a categorically bad choice for German builds.

Eight tech rolls for Combined Bombardment destroyer tech.

pwnt?

[Jennifer]

Not categorically bad.  You could force the allies to garrison the hell out of England at the cost of Africa. :)

Not very likely, but not categorically bad either.

[Romulus]

Eight tech rolls for Combined Bombardement detroyer tech…. FAILED!

[Crazy Ivan]

:-o
  Seems I’m behind the curve on this thread, it has morphed from the original subject a bit. But everyone seems to have forgotten about the RUSSIAN sub? It can easily block the germans from dashing out of the med on G2 to attack the left over Britts off of the Brittany coast. I worked this out on an earlier thread when I suggested a bid-build buy of a sub to be placed in the mid-Atlantic. In that scenario, Germany would have had 4 subs, DD and a Transport in sz6! But without the threat of the BB and transport from Gibralter, in a counter-attack, the Britts wiped out my re-inforced Baltic fleet. Their build of a carrier+fighter and a transport went in with the BB to keep my luftwaffe in their hangers or go looking for easier targets. :|
  My Germany Navy builds are a bid-buy of a transport in the Med followed by a regular buy of a 2 transports in the Baltic. This makes it much riskier, (and possibly rewarding) for the Britts to attack any of Germanys fleets on UK1. Germany needs to bring its’ Atlantic sub to the attack of the British Med BB with the german BB and Transport and invade Gibralter, thus removing that landing field. Reinforce Algeria with armor, inf, and fighters, to keep the Britts out is also very important.
The big ? is how far should Germany go with this strategy? What is your goal? Delay or Superiority in the Med/Atlantic. It is really up to the individual player after all.
  C.I  :roll:

[trihero]

That’s an interesting point about the Russian sub, but “all” it takes is for one German fighter to go attack it and force it to die or submerge, then the German fleet links up in SZ7 as predicted  :wink: It does require for a German fighter to be open, but rarely do I find I can’t spare 1 fighter unless Russia was super aggressive and super lucky on their first push.

Superiority in the Med is costly :*( You can spend a lot of IPCs there just to go back and forth with the US over 1-2 IPCs -_-a

[Jennifer]

Kriegsmarine Superiority is usually an exercise in futility.  You just cannot out produce the Americans, no matter how hard you try.  And with minimal investments, England can easily sink your fleets in the Med or in the Baltic or both.  It may slow the allies down, which I think is the point, but at what cost in the long run?

How many aircraft carriers and destroyers and submarines do the Germans need to win Axis and Allies?  On the other hand, how many battleships does Russia need to win Axis and Allies?

In other words, is your goal Moscow, or elaborate Fish Condos?

[NoMercy]

Somebodys strategy could also be for Germany to draw the attention of UK and US and try and hold them off from reinforcing Russia and let Japan Destroy Moscow.

But I would use luftwaffe Superiority instead of Kriegsmarine Superiority.

If I went down that route I would try and devise a strategy as looked at already to use the Kriegsmarine + the Luftwaffe to wipe out the UK fleet early and then reinforce the Luftwaffe later and ensure no more Allied divisions come to the aid of Moscow.

[Lucifer]

@trihero:

I don’t think the Germans should buy any navy, either. I did start out thinking that the Germans should always buy a carrier at first, I suppose like anyone else. It’s just one of those things you grow out of I guess, like peeing in your bed!  :? :-o :-D

That means you always win against anyone who buys AC G1?

[Lucifer]

@Romulus:

Considering what has been said on another thread, I am wondering about buying an AC on first turn: could it be a good counter for a KJF? (if Russia player make an opening that may support a KJF)

Seriously, what do I do to incite a KJF, as playing Jap?
Do not do pearl?
I’m not gonna do a “weak pearl”, but anything that can make US come after me would be tempting.

The most obvious thing to stop a KJF is definately 4-5 trans G1.

[axis_roll]

@Lucifer:

Seriously, what do I do to incite a KJF, as playing Jap?
Do not do pearl?
I’m not gonna do a “weak pearl”, but anything that can make US come after me would be tempting.

The most obvious thing to stop a KJF is definately 4-5 trans G1.

How about a DD purchase G1?

no UK planes will attack that.  And yes, I know, for another $4 you can get a carrier and do the same thing even better.

Hard part about the carrier is knowing when to let it die (and the other navy still with it) without losing your two german fighters on it.

I try to get Japanese fighters on that German a/c if possible.  Hurts less when that goes down since Japan can afford the two ftrs more than Germany in a typical KGF allies strategy.

[Lucifer]

@axis_roll:

How about a DD purchase G1?

Yeah, how bout that?

Nah, how long can you keep baltic with one DD + original stuff?
Is 12 ipc worth one rnd without brits?
You tell me.  :wink:

Personally I wanna keep UK out until rnd 3-4, maybe 5 with AC buy.
But then again, it’s not the freakin AC that matters, it’s how you use it.

[Romulus]

German AC has only two ways of using:

• staying in the Baltic doing nothing of particularly useful, other than taking fig away from WE or EE;
• participating in an attack to an Allied fleet dying as cannon fodder.

In the past I though that it may be used to contrastate Allies landings and other similar things.
But such employment may be quickly achieved with “a good stock of infantries”.

[Jennifer]

The German AC does prevent a British invasion of Norway on G1 by making it too costly for England to leave it’s fleet in SZ 3.

The Germany AC does NOT prevent a British invasion of Karelia/Archangelsk furthermore, it encourages a British invasion of Algeria.

[Lucifer]

AC G1 may force UK to build 2 AC’s, G can use the AC as fodder against UK.
If UK land in Norway UK1, then Russia can block with sub on R2.