@domanmacgee What they called “draft dodgers” was pretty much everyone making the Canadian contribution largely a naval affair.
Western Canada?
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Fair enough, but I was figuring the UK (and possibly Canada) could extract an additional IPC out of the region. Would be easy enough to give Canada a national sovereignty bonus to represent the value they get out of there.
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I am sure that it would feel good if Canada would have equal IPC value as the United Kingdom + Scotland. Perhaps you can have a house rule where A.S.M. is worth 2 IPCs and the United Kingdom is worth only 5 IPCs. That shouldn’t have any practical affect on the game play…
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Funny thing about those Canadian roundels, I just found this
Axis & Allies Pacific 1940, 2nd Edition, FAQ
November 24, 2014
Errata
The Map: Western Canada should have a Canadian emblem. It is originally controlled by the United Kingdom.As far as I can tell the Canadian Emblem is rules-wise equivalent to the UK emblem. I guess the errata is also a nod to Canadian patriotism? I’ll take it. :-)
Regarding our Prairie Provinces, I thought they were relatively undeveloped back in the 30s and 40s. I could be wrong.
@Arthur:
Perhaps you can have a house rule where A.S.M. is worth 2 IPCs and the United Kingdom is worth only 5 IPCs. That shouldn’t have any practical affect on the game play…
I think I’m going to have a house rule where I play on my 1st edition board. Hopefully I can pull of Operation Hollywood sometime and it will have a practical effect on game play. :evil:
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Funny thing about those Canadian roundels, I just found this
Axis & Allies Pacific 1940, 2nd Edition, FAQ
November 24, 2014
Errata
The Map: Western Canada should have a Canadian emblem. It is originally controlled by the United Kingdom.As far as I can tell the Canadian Emblem is rules-wise equivalent to the UK emblem. I guess the errata is also a nod to Canadian patriotism? I’ll take it. :-)
**Regarding our Prairie Provinces, I thought they were relatively undeveloped back in the 30s and 40s. I could be wrong. **
@Arthur:
Perhaps you can have a house rule where A.S.M. is worth 2 IPCs and the United Kingdom is worth only 5 IPCs. That shouldn’t have any practical affect on the game play…
I think I’m going to have a house rule where I play on my 1st edition board. Hopefully I can pull of Operation Hollywood sometime and it will have a practical effect on game play. :evil:
You are right:
Commercial production of oil from the Athabasca oil sands began in 1967, with the opening of the Great Canadian Oil Sands (GCOS) plant in Fort McMurray. It was the first operational oil sands project in the world, owned and operated by the American parent company, Sun Oil Company. When the $US240 million-dollar plant officially opened with a capacity of 45,000 bpd, it marked the beginning of commercial development of the Athabasca oil sands. In 2013 McKenzie-Brown listed industrialist J. Howard Pew as one of the six visionaries who built the Athabasca oil sands.[34] By the time of his death in 1971, the Pew family were ranked by Forbes magazine as one of the half-dozen wealthiest families in America.[35] The Great Canadian Oil Sands Limited (then a subsidiary of Sun Oil Company but now incorporated into an independent company known as Suncor Energy Inc.) produced 30,000 barrels per day (4,800 m3/d) of synthetic crude oil.[36[/quote]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sandsI also learned that they almost use nuke to get oil from the sand: :roll:
Project Oilsand, also known as Project Oilsands, and originally known as Project Cauldron, was a 1958 proposal to exploit the Athabasca Oil Sands in Alberta via the underground detonation of up to 100 nuclear explosives;[1] hypothetically, the heat and pressure created by an underground detonation would boil the bitumen deposits, reducing their viscosity to the point that standard oilfield techniques could be used.
Project Cauldron was suggested by L.M. Natland, a geologist working for Richfield Oil, in response to American efforts to find peaceful uses for atomic energy. An investigative committee was formed with the support of Alberta’s Social Credit government. One of the committee’s early recommendations was that, in order to minimize public fears, a “less effervescent name”[2] should be used; Project Cauldron was subsequently renamed Project Oilsand.
In April 1959, the Federal Mines Department approved Project Oilsand; Pony Creek, Alberta (103 kilometres [64 miles] from Fort McMurray) was selected as a test site.[3] Before the project could continue beyond these preliminary steps, however, the Canadian government’s stance on the use of nuclear weapons shifted towards one of non-proliferation; out of concerns that it would increase the risk of Soviet espionage, Project Oilsand was put on hiatus.[3] In April 1962, Canadian Secretary of State for External Affairs Howard Charles Green said “Canada is opposed to nuclear tests, period”;[4] Project Oilsand was subsequently canceled.
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@Baron:
I also learned that they almost use nuke to get oil from the sand: :roll:
Project Oilsand, also known as Project Oilsands, and originally known as Project Cauldron, was a 1958 proposal to exploit the Athabasca Oil Sands in Alberta via the underground detonation of up to 100 nuclear explosives;[1] hypothetically, the heat and pressure created by an underground detonation would boil the bitumen deposits, reducing their viscosity to the point that standard oilfield techniques could be used.
Project Cauldron was suggested by L.M. Natland, a geologist working for Richfield Oil, in response to American efforts to find peaceful uses for atomic energy. An investigative committee was formed with the support of Alberta’s Social Credit government. One of the committee’s early recommendations was that, in order to minimize public fears, a “less effervescent name”[2] should be used; Project Cauldron was subsequently renamed Project Oilsand.
In April 1959, the Federal Mines Department approved Project Oilsand; Pony Creek, Alberta (103 kilometres [64 miles] from Fort McMurray) was selected as a test site.[3] Before the project could continue beyond these preliminary steps, however, the Canadian government’s stance on the use of nuclear weapons shifted towards one of non-proliferation; out of concerns that it would increase the risk of Soviet espionage, Project Oilsand was put on hiatus.[3] In April 1962, Canadian Secretary of State for External Affairs Howard Charles Green said “Canada is opposed to nuclear tests, period”;[4] Project Oilsand was subsequently canceled.
Ha ha ! reminds me of the Alaskans wanting to nuke that glacier over by Yakutat when it corked off the river.
Used to say “Entering A Nuclear Weapons Free Zone” when you hit The Yukon. Don’t know why it changed. -
I don’t know, if Larry was truly persuaded to make this map change on the basis of Operation Hollywood, I’d really have to question “Why that?” and not any of the other map areas that are clearly more problematic for Axis game busting strategies?
:-DThe thing is, this is is the only play-based motivation that’s plausible.
I’m I to have a hard time believing LH and crew were bothered by Operation Hollywood, but readily accept that they were bothered by the aesthetics of the the Canadian Pacific coast?
We already know 2nd edition intentionally cracked down on Kill America First - why else change the rule to let USA enter the war when the Axis attack Canada. Makes more sense to me if Yukon/BC was part of the same discussion.
Edit - I forgot about your theory that it was accidental. That is actually consistent with them accidentally omitting the Canadian emblem (as per the FAQ). Probably I’m reading too much into this.
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Had no idea the prairies were only recently developed for oil extraction, 1967 is only 50 years ago. Looks like their rise coincided with Stephen Harper’s ascendancy (he wisely moved west from Toronto, akin to northeasterners moving to Texas). Certainly justifies the IPC value now.
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Alberta became the boon province around the late 1990s. I know because I’m from the East, and there has usually been a city where us maritimers migrate to for better employment. In the 80s it was Toronto. Early nineties, Vancouver. Late 90s till recently, Calgary.
Harper ramped things up for oil production via the loosening of environmental policies and the expansion of corporate welfare (tax breaks). But he failed to negotiate (not his strong point) a pipeline deal, and also put too many of our country’s eggs in that sector - causing bad times when the price of oil tanked. These two failures probably cost him reelection.
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The game designers were quite engaged by a discussion last year that concerned whether Sierra Leone was properly allocated to the correct historical side, in order to honor those Sierra Leonians who fought the Nazi’s boldly (if any).
So, what they consider an important thing to change may be different than what you or I think is a priority.
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So, what they consider an important thing to change may be different than what you or I think is a priority.
True that!
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In my travels, one other thing I’ve noticed about people from The Netherlands is that they speak better English than 90% of Canadians and Americans. I’m not sure why that is.
@Arthur:
I do agree that the English of people in the Netherlands is better than a vast majority of people in North America.
On behalf of my countrymen, thanks for the compliments. Though maybe you guys mostly meet people who travel and are internationally oriented. But linguistically, we often end up somewhere in the mid Atlantic. I’ve been mistaken for an Englishman in the US and for an American in the UK. It’s a small country, so we need our languages…… from where I live, 150 miles west I need to know English, 150 miles south, French, 150 miles east, German, and 150 miles north… well, whatever the fish are speaking.
More on topic, I do agree with the general sentiment that having Canada as a separate power would be a welcome acknowledgment of their contribution to the Allied war effort. But it’s still a board game, so one we start going down that road, where does it end? Finland, for example, was a separate power that fought on the Axis’ side for most of the war, and the same can be said for Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary to some degree… and shouldn’t we indeed have separate Dutch units to better defend the DEI against Japan? And the Poles fought bravely, and so did the Belgians, and the Norwegians, and the Greeks, and expeditionary forces from countries around the world, and I’m probably missing quite a few others here…
Having said that, from a viewpoint of game mechanics, Canada does seem like a prime candidate. -
sounds like someone is ready to play G36 as the Brazilian Empire.
though it does not have a giant population somehow Canada is a major nation in the (real life) world of AXA. there are tons of Canadian players and conventions.
Time to put Kansas on that map.
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The game designers were quite engaged by a discussion last year that concerned whether Sierra Leone was properly allocated to the correct historical side, in order to honor those Sierra Leonians who fought the Nazi’s boldly (if any).
So, what they consider an important thing to change may be different than what you or I think is a priority.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=37805.0
Hehe yeah I guess, though apparently not enough to get a 3rd edition reprint out of it. Alas
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there are tons of Canadian players and conventions.
WWI and WWII resonates with most of us up here. Almost every 2nd or 3rd generation Canadian has at least one parent, grandparent, uncle or whatever who was lost in the war, or who came back missing a limb, eye, or suffered some long-term injury. I guess it’s all part of that “white privilege” we supposedly enjoy. My dad worked in a coal mine and had to help a WWI vet clean the coal dust out of the permanent hole he had in his back from a German machine-gun round.
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My Grandfather was stationed to a mine sweeping sub during the Battle of the Atlantic. Luckily he came back. No missing parts - I think it’s all or nothing in a submarine!
My Great Grandfather served in the Royal Navy during WWI. RN booted him out later on account of his poor eyesight (cost cutting). He’s been a cadet since childhood, and the military was all he knew. So he immigrated here and joined the RCN.
When he got to Halifax he was immediately (and unexpectedly) redeployed to BC. His wife and children arrived in Halifax with no money, expecting him to meet them. The Salvation Army took care of them and sent them on a train to BC - otherwise I wouldn’t be here.
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My aunt’s first husband (before I was born) was shot down and killed in a bombing raid over Germany. I had two uncles that served in WWII - unscathed, thankfully. My mom’s folks moved to Canada from Poland in the 20s, but during WWI it was German occupied so granddad was forced to fight for the Germans. Growing up my folks has so many friends who were WWII vets, including one guy with a plate in his head after the cockpit of his Flying Tiger got shot off over China. My dad came of age just a few months after the nukes dropped on Japan, so he was lucky.
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