Fascism was most definently the lesser of the two evils.
yep true.
I tend to see them as being as bad as each other.
In Britain Communist Union leaders organized strikes and urged members to help the German invasion if it came, because at the time the Germans and Soviets were allies. After Barbarossa began they critisised the British government for not doing enough to fight Hitler!
If the first line on your post were true, then it must have been underground movement, because publically if anybody made any pro-german comments they would be sitting in jail with Oswald Mosley who did the same types of things up until world war two started.
@M36:
Fascism was most definently the lesser of the two evils.
mass genocide based on hair color and relgion
mass prison camps based on conspricy to commit treason.?
i’d chosse commmunism. also coimmunism tried to help the people but it was a flawed syestem. i would rater live in the USSR than nazzi germany. even if my grandma wasn’t jewish.
mass genocide based on hair color and relgion
mass prison camps based on conspricy to commit treason.?
Stalin killed like 22 million of his own people for those same reasons and more, Germany also killed but only after the Allies charged and increased their fees on taking the people as refuges and forced immigration. Part of History that has been whitewashed in books was until very late 1941 Germany was also expelling people they didn’t want. Of course this was not the only method and as time wore on the conquests led to many new refugees. Stalin just killed people for even less reasons. Mao also killed way more than Hitler but the Chinese people themselves whitewash this to not look like hypocrites.
Stalin had gulags that performed the same barbaric acts as anything under the nazis.
Hey look! A new guy!
I say that Op. Barbarossa was an impossible task. At the time the Soviets had 3 times the population as germany, they would have never been able to occupie it. The other problom was winter equipment, after the soviet winter offensive, Hitler’s whole eastern front began to collapse. Same thing that defeated Nepolleon.
Who knows, if the invassion never happened, then Operation Sealion (invassion of the U.K. mainland) could’ve happened. Battle of Brttan thankfully stopped that.
I say that the day that German Panzers crossed the Soviet borders, was the day that Hitler lost WWII.
Welcome Gewehr! and yes I agree, the day they cross the Border ended the Third Reich…
GG
@Guerrilla:
Welcome Gewehr! and yes I agree, the day they cross the Border ended the Third Reich…
GG
Sadly……No, I’m not a Neo Nazi… :wink: :lol:
hehe, of course not… :)
@Imperious:
mass genocide based on hair color and relgion
mass prison camps based on conspricy to commit treason.?Stalin killed like 22 million of his own people for those same reasons and more, Germany also killed but only after the Allies charged and increased their fees on taking the people as refuges and forced immigration. Part of History that has been whitewashed in books was until very late 1941 Germany was also expelling people they didn’t want. Of course this was not the only method and as time wore on the conquests led to many new refugees. Stalin just killed people for even less reasons. Mao also killed way more than Hitler but the Chinese people themselves whitewash this to not look like hypocrites.
Stalin had gulags that performed the same barbaric acts as anything under the nazis.
ever read one day in the life a Ivan Denisovich?
That is why Patton didn’t support alliances with the Russians, and suggested that we continue the Invasion after we conquered Germany (into Russia)… Of course no one listened to him…
GG
@Guerrilla:
That is why Patton didn’t support alliances with the Russians, and suggested that we continue the Invasion after we conquered Germany (into Russia)… Of course no one listened to him…
GG
i think it was called operation unthinkable or something like that. churchill actually gave it alot of thought.
Actually Patton wanted the Germans to help him do this. He hated the Soviets worse than the Germans who he respected more as soldiers.
German propaganda played up this hope thinking Patton actually had more clout than he did because under the German military tradition a successful military leader did have more clearance for such initiative and they respected Patton as well. And to add the Soviet also felt some tricks were yet to be played by the western allies at some point.
the soviets were already using women in their army, b/c all men 16-40 were about dead. the eastern tribes they subdued were also used.
2 years of war with the soviets and they’d crumble. who’d run their factories? who’d be left to fight for them?
an a-bomb could take out a division. and an a-bomb could take out cities with factories.
the soviets would’nt of stood a chance.
our bombers and fighters would reign supreme in the sky, harassing their armor columns. and we’d have the industrial capacity to make the german tigers and king tigers in mass.
it would be us, the brits, germans, and fins against ussr for sure. hell maybe we could get the japanese to help after they were beaten. the turks would’ve loved to get back territory lost to russia and the chance to make the black sea theirs.
no way the russians could do anything about anything.
Yes but after only 2 years I doubt we would have enough A-bombs for that
I’ve played a senario like that on hearts of iron, I got everyone except japan, south america, to declare war on the Soviets, when it got to 1947 (as far as you can get on the game) Turkey took most of the ukraine, half of china fell, I (germany) pushed them all the way to the urals, then I actually ended up linking up with china, cuting the kazikstan area, off from siberia and Nothern USSR. With the help of the brits in india, kazakstan area was taken, and the Soviets called it quits (I annexed the communists).
All thanks to the help of both mine and the U.S.s Nucleur bombs. :evil:
Try “Hearts of Iron: Doomsday” it goes to 1953 and is setup to allow that senario.
Yea I know, it’s on my list of things to buy next, about 6-7th.
:-o
On the Subject of,“The Eastern Front” as it is commonly known, Since we are talking about the entire, (German) War with Russia and not just the opening campaign now. I would like to quote a german veteran of that front.
While riding a bus in Frankfort, Germany and upon seeing a young american carrying a book titled “The loss of the Eastern Front” He voluteered his assesment of that long and bloody Crusade.
When rose from his seat, cain in hand, He asked the young man; Do you want to know why we lost in Russia? Sure! replied the American,“Then I’ll tell you why ve lost in Russia. It vas too damnt Big, It vas too damnt colt, and zer vere too damnt many of zem!”
Well, that pretty well puts it in a nutshell by a man who was there. and although The German High-Command and Hitler could have done many things different, It was the artic winters, the great distances to attack, defend, and get limited supplies across, and of course the hundreds of millions of men that they could throw at the Germans, ( hell, the Russians had more men than rifles!).
A good movie to see, if you haven’t already, is “Enemy at the Gates”. Mostly about Stalingrad, but you’ll get the feel for most of what it was like on that front. another good one is " Cross of Iron" with Clint Eastwood.
Also, as noted, Germany wasn,t geared up for a war of this magnitude in 1941. It’s Industry just could not build enough equipment to support the amount of men it would have required to do the job.
Hitler was hoping to force Stalin to terms with the Blitzkrieg, as he had done in Poland, France, and the Balkans. But as all invaders of Russia learned the hard way, It is too damned big, too damned cold and there are just too damned many of them.
Crazy Ivan :roll:
Oh, and as for the Code name; I think it was the Birthdate of the German Emperor, ( Holy Roman) Fredrick Barberossa, who led an invasion into Russia in the 15th century, give or take a century.
