MOVIES 2017

[CWO Marc]

@Wolfshanze:

The fact is this however… he definitely did not let them peacefully escape without any attempt to stop them, that is most definitely clear.  The most definitive German intervention of Dunkirk can be pointed at the Wehrmacht/Luftwaffe competition with Goering having a lot to do with the mess of Dunkirk.  While the encircling panzers were ordered to stop to rearm/refuel, it was Goering who drove it home to Hitler that he could stop them from leaving with the Luftwaffe, and certainly Goering tried… the fact that the panzers should have been given the order to close in immediately is clear if the Germans wanted a complete route at Dunkirk, the fact that Goerings promises to Hitler and glory-seeking for the Luftwaffe can also not be ignored.

As with almost anything in the Third Reich, pride/competition and indecision led to mistakes that cost them some golden opportunities on the battlefield.

Yes, and it fits with Goering having a bit of track record of having made inflated promises.  The citizens of Berlin referred to him as “Herr Meyer” behind his back because he’d once declared “If Berlin is ever bombed, you can call me Meyer”.  He later promised that he could resupply the encircled 6th Army at Stalingrad by air, but was able to deliver only a fraction of what it needed.

[Flashman]

The order to stop 3 miles short of Dunkirk was definitely given by Hitler. Von Kleist was “astonished” and decided to ignore the order. He actually ordered the armour to advance but then received another directive from Hitler to withdraw and was kept there for 3 days.

Historian Basil Liddel-Hart concluded that the escape was largely down to Hitler’s personal order to Halt the armoured divisions. Hitler wanted the war in the west to end and he thought that destroying the British army would hinder the chances of making peace.

Hess had a big row with Hitler over this, believing that the best way to end the war was to smash the British while they had the chance.

[General 6 Stars]

There’s your answer.

[Wolfshanze]

@SS:

There’s your answer.

That’s not as clear cut as you make it out to be… yes, Hitler ordered the halt of the Panzers… and yes, there was talk of Hitler not wanting to totally crush the British, but at the very same time, he listened to Goering and TOTALLY Okay’d letting the Luftwaffe go nuts on the British at Dunkirk… having Goering throw everything but the kitchen sink at Dunkirk and Hitler doing nothing to stop it hardly goes in-line with the “he totally let them go” line of thinking.

As I said in my previous post, it’s really a very wishy-washy action and/or lack of action by Hitler on whether or not he was sincere about letting the English off the hook… if he was totally sold on the “let them go” line, he would have told Goering to stand-down… if he was totally on the “kill them all”, he would have sent the Panzers in.

As stated, the Third Reich and Hitler’s meddling often led to unclear policies and missed opportunities, the least of which was Hitler’s unstated policy of letting the different branches of the Third Reich constantly compete with one another, often at the detriment to national goals.

I don’t think anybody can say “yes he let them go” or “no, he totally tried to stop them”… the fact of the matter is, he kinda let them go while kinda trying to stop them.

[Private-Panic]

That is my understanding too Wolf.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@Flashman:

Hess had a big row with Hitler over this, believing that the best way to end the war was to smash the British while they had the chance.

Hess row was sooo big that he flew over the channel to tell the British People in Person, that Germany is going to Smash them anyways! 8-)

[General 6 Stars]

@Wolfshanze:

@SS:

There’s your answer.

That’s not as clear cut as you make it out to be… yes, Hitler ordered the halt of the Panzers… and yes, there was talk of Hitler not wanting to totally crush the British, but at the very same time, he listened to Goering and TOTALLY Okay’d letting the Luftwaffe go nuts on the British at Dunkirk… having Goering throw everything but the kitchen sink at Dunkirk and Hitler doing nothing to stop it hardly goes in-line with the “he totally let them go” line of thinking.

As I said in my previous post, it’s really a very wishy-washy action and/or lack of action by Hitler on whether or not he was sincere about letting the English off the hook… if he was totally sold on the “let them go” line, he would have told Goering to stand-down… if he was totally on the “kill them all”, he would have sent the Panzers in.

As stated, the Third Reich and Hitler’s meddling often led to unclear policies and missed opportunities, the least of which was Hitler’s unstated policy of letting the different branches of the Third Reich constantly compete with one another, often at the detriment to national goals.

I don’t think anybody can say “yes he let them go” or “no, he totally tried to stop them”… the fact of the matter is, he kinda let them go while kinda trying to stop them.

There’s your answer.  :-D :? :evil: :? :-D :? :evil:

[aequitas-et-veritas]

Has  anyone seen Logan allready??
A co-worker of mine saw it and said it was a good watch.
Had nothing glamoures on it and portayed kind of dark but interstingly made
(Story board wise).

I doubt that i am going to see the movie in theatre.

[General Veers]

It took full advantage of the R-rating but I just wish that with all the heads and limbs being chopped off they could have cut fifteen minutes. A little too much exposition at times for a character we are very, very familiar with.

[frimmel]

“Logan” is not a warm fuzzy tale despite getting some dirt in your eyes here and there. Does a lot of things I’d wish other comic book movies would do. Smaller tale, focused and not trying to be part of some sort of trilogy or shoehorn in previews for a bunch of other movies, personal story, not another origin story, not trying to shoehorn in 50 years of the character, fine performances, action sequences mostly coherent and bloody/graphic, is actually about something.

Villain is a little weak but that isn’t what the movies about.

I didn’t think it was too long.

Good movie. Very good “comic book” movie. Certainly the best Wolverine movie and makes a strong argument for the best of the X-men franchise. Well above Last Stand and Apocalypse. Recommended.

Not for kids, particularly little kids. Lots of f-bombs and adult themes and graphic violence (decapitations and severed limbs and claws through skulls.) No nudity/sex though.

[Imperious Leader]

Lion was a great movie very touching but a bit slow at times.

Would never see a comic book anything, never have. I think they dumb down the human race and are the leading cause of diabetes. Sorry that’s how i feel.

[Private-Panic]

@Imperious:

Lion was a great movie very touching but a bit slow at times.

Lion was great! Particularly the first half which just felt so authentic a depiction of a small child being lost amidst India’s huge morass of people and poverty.

[LHoffman]

@Imperious:

Would never see a comic book anything, never have. I think they dumb down the human race and are the leading cause of diabetes. Sorry that’s how i feel.

:lol:

Most comic book movies are the same, in both formula and content, not to mention believeability. Chris Nolan’s Dark Knight work is easily the best though. The themes are deeper, the story more cohesive and the content is at least realistically portrayed. And it doesn’t try to be grander than three films with a single main character. Definitely worth your time if you ever decided to watch a comic book movie.

[Flashman]

Super is a comic book movie worth seeing, mainly because it sends up the entire genre.

[General 6 Stars]

Then you know u will like Dunkirk

[Imperious Leader]

Most comic book movies are the same, in both formula and content, not to mention believeability.

Like hot plastic pressed into a toy for mass consumption. They never engage the mind or sentiments other than base feelings and are based on whimsical every 20 seconds of special effects and horrible acting. Look at how these movies are always marketed. Always fast food and snacks tied into the promo because they understand their audience well. Its a turn off mind movie. IMO ( don’t mean to argue the point).

[LHoffman]

@Imperious:

Most comic book movies are the same, in both formula and content, not to mention believeability.

Like hot plastic pressed into a toy for mass consumption. They never engage the mind or sentiments other than base feelings and are based on whimsical every 20 seconds of special effects and horrible acting. Look at how these movies are always marketed. Always fast food and snacks tied into the promo because they understand their audience well. Its a turn off mind movie. IMO ( don’t mean to argue the point).

For the vast majority of comic/superhero movies, I certainly agree. They don’t care to rise above their genre because there is a safe bet of lots of money in staying dumb, predictable and bombastic.

I don’t know… perhaps Batman is the superhero best suited to a grounded film adaptation. He isn’t supernaturally blessed with abnormal abilities. He is a flawed human with reasonable motivations and resources. The Dark Knight movies are the only comic films I can wholeheartedly recommend as approaching if not meeting your standards. It was a perfect storm of subject matter, director, actors and script that made for such engaging and well crafted movies.

At most you will lose a couple hours of your life. :wink:

[Wolfshanze]

Did you catch Logan?  That movie was awesome, and not a super-hero costume to be seen anywhere in the movie… way more engaging than anything DC has put-out, including the Batman movies… I’m not even really a fan of the X-men, but my son wanted to see Logan, so we went, and wow, that was a really fantastic movie that was nothing like any “superhero” movie I’ve seen before.

Speaking of DC and Batman movies… I caught a recent trailer for Justice League… and someone asks Batman what his superpower is… his reply?  “I’m really rich”.  I lol’d that line.

[LHoffman]

I have heard that Logan is fantastic. Probably going to wait until I can rent it though. I tend to only go see films in theater that I am highly interested in or anticipated for some time (e.g. Dunkirk).

The later X-men films have been much better than earlier ones, but it was never a franchise I was very interested in. The seemingly inconsistent way that 20th Century Fox has handled the brand kinda turned me off too. Granted X-Men (2000) was what I would call the very first of the modern super hero, comic book film genre (post-90s). It (and Spiderman 2002) began the glut of super hero films we have now. Still going strong almost 20 years later. Back to X-Men… I don’t think the idea of a cinematic universe existed back in 1999-2000. And I doubt they could have known that the franchise would be so profitable, so I cannot entirely blame 20th Century Fox for all the faults I see in the X-men franchise. They didn’t know what they were doing and I am judging from a more modern perspective.

[Wolfshanze]

You and I may be similar on the X-Men franchise… I actually saw several of the earlier X-men movies, but neither the comic series nor the movie franchise was really my cup of tea… the franchise also has been plagued by a lot of incontinuity issues as they jump around a lot and contradict itself at the same time… I had skipped over the last few X-men movies and only saw Logan because my son loves Wolverine and really really wanted to go, so I took the family.

Having said that, and my personal views of the X-men franchise… I was deeply moved by Logan… it was a really, Really, REALLY good movie… so this is not some X-men fan-boy reaction to the movie… it was so good, it makes me want to go back and see the other movies I missed (like Days of Future Past)… I might regret the decision to go back and dig up the X-men movies I missed, but Logan was so good, I want to see all of them now.

Marvel has been hitting movies really right lately, especially the entire Avengers franchise and its supporting cast of Super Hero movies and tie-ins… Logan is really a quality movie but it’s not really comparable with any other Marvel movie other than the fact Marvel hit this one out of the park. If only Marvel had treated the X-men franchise as well as they treated the Avengers and Logan movie… that would have been something.

Oh, and PS… if you do go see Logan in theater… yes, it’s a Marvel movie, but NO… don’t wait till the end of the credits… Logan was far too serious to put a sneak peak at the end of the credits… in fact, the sneak peak is at the beginning of Logan… so when the movie ends, go ahead and leave the theatre, you won’t miss anything!