G1 fleet unification, how does UK respond?

[Nix]

yes (same with land units)

[rjclayton]

Yes.  But I think the russian sub issue was addressing the question of why the counterattack to sz7 was only with air, not with the BB/trn from WMD sz.  The russian sub can prevent the med fleet from engaging in combat in sz7 on G2.

[Nix]

Still, 6-8 figs + bmb still kills UK bb,2 trn and possibly a Dst or AC.

[Jennifer]

Nix, don’t forget the 2 submarines, transport and destroyer from SZ 5 in your equation.

2 Submarines, Transport, Destroyer, Bomber, 5 Fighters (*I’ll assume a fighter was lost in Ukraine) and maybe a German Carrier (since I’d build one if I wanted fleet unification).

vs

2 Transports, Aircraft Carrier, 2 Fighters, Battleship, Destroyer

Overall %*: A. survives: 93%  D. survives: 6.6%  No one survives: 0.4%

That is worth it to me!  Even if the surface fleet minus the Carrier was sunk.  I’d be able to link a transport and Battleship with a Carrier and 2 Fighters.  That’s a good seed for any fleet, with no British airforce or Navy present and a scant 1 warship of America in the water!

(Link to Frood’s Results)
http://frood.net/aacalc/?mustland=0&abortratio=0&saveunits=0&strafeunits=0&aInf=&aArt=&aArm=&aFig=5&aBom=1&aTra=1&aSub=2&aDes=1&aCar=1&aBat=&adBat=&dInf=&dArt=&dArm=&dFig=2&dBom=&dTra=2&dSub=&dDes=1&dCar=1&dBat=1&ddBat=&ool_att=Bat-Inf-Art-Arm-Tra-Sub-SSub-Fig-JFig-Des-Bom-HBom-Car-dBat&ool_def=Bat-Inf-Art-Arm-Tra-Sub-SSub-Bom-HBom-Des-Fig-JFig-Car-dBat&battle=Run&rounds=&reps=10000&luck=pure&ruleset=Revised&gameid=&password=&turnid=&territory=&round=1&pbem=

[rjclayton]

@Jennifer:

Nix, don’t forget the 2 submarines, transport and destroyer from SZ 5 in your equation.

This thread is about a UK counter to a G1 channel dash.  There is no baltic fleet to counterattack sz7 with on G2 because you would be countering an attack made on UK1 on the baltic fleet in sz7.

[Guest]

If you do not take out Gibraltar, then the UK counter (with the SZ8 SUB in SZ7) is to attack the MED fleet, not the fleet in SZ7.

Use the SZ15 DST, 2 FIGs, 1 BOM against 1 BB, 1 TRN.
UK wins this fight w the loss of only 1 unit most of the time.

Then consolidate the US/USSR/UK naval units in SZ8
4 TRN, 1 SUB, 1 DST, 1 BB + build units from UK1 (I’d do an AC and land the EUS FIG on it, plus a TRN)
Total Allied Force:  5 TRN, 1 SUB, 1 DST, 1 AC, 1 FIG, 1 BB
and invite the Germans to counter
5 FIG (1 lost in Ukraine on R1, newly built G1 FIGs cannot reach SZ8)
1 BOM
3 SUB, 1 TRN, 1 DST

Germany loses almost their entire AF, does lose their entire Navy.

Now UK builds their fleet in UK2, USA sails the fleet units they built in US1 and the SZ20 DST into position, and Germany is down to a land power, with no navy left, and only 2 air units.  Meanwhile, Africa stays British due to lack of Luftwaffe support and the India counter attack, and Russia is gaining lots of gorund with no air threat for Germany to use for territory trades (meaning Germany is trading INF and ARM for Russian INF while they lose ground in central Europe.

[rjclayton]

Switch, if you were referring to this:

@rjclayton:

As germany I would probably forgo the Gibraltar move on G1 (I can always do it on G2 if the merge is on) to take (and hold) Egypt if possible and put more pressure on UK to make choices early.

Then understand that I am not suggesting moving the fleet to WMD without taking Gibraltar.  I’m suggesting moving the med fleet to EMD on G1 (to help with Egypt).  Then if the baltic fleet survives in sz7 you can consider moving the med fleet back to WMD on G2 and consolidating with the baltic fleet there.  If the baltic fleet survives.

[Guest]

Ah OK.

[newpaintbrush]

@JLord:

So on G1 I buy 2 figs, 2 arm, 4 inf.  (this was just my thought, I might switch to a strait inf. and art. buy)

So you DO have a bid, right?

[rjclayton]

Sounds like it:

@JLord:

Take egypt with bid units and a bomber.

[newpaintbrush]

@rjclayton:

Sounds like it:

@JLord:

Take egypt with bid units and a bomber.

Lol @ my illiteracy.

But if there are bid UNITS, that’s at least 8 IPC for Germany.  (2 IPC in the bank for a 42 IPC G1 buy, and 6 IPC for two infantry in Libya).

If I had 8 IPC, a Baltic transport for G1 invasion of London looks pretty sweet to me.  ASSUMING he’s playing OOB/FAQ.

[rjclayton]

True.  Although when he said “bid units” he might have meant “bid unit plus Libya units” as I assume he would use existing Libya units in his attempt to take Egypt.  Not literally what he said but still possible.

Why you still play OOB, G?

[zosima]

I think the German fleet is a lost cause.

[JLord]

My plans for the bid was to use a tank and inf in Africa plus the units that are there to take Egypt.  An extra transport would be great in the baltic but then you probably can’t take Egypt without committing your battleship.

[rjclayton]

I’d still suggest committing your battleship to Egypt G1 then if you still want to try the merge on G2 you can then take Gibraltar and merge the remnants of the baltic fleet in sz13 with BB/trn.  Do you gain a lot by taking Gibraltar G1 on a channel dash?  I don’t really see it.

[Guest]

If you don;t take Gibraltar on the Channel Dash, and if you move the Med fleet west, the med fleet dies.  That is really the only reason to take Gibraltar in Revised (though a Gibraltar Tank Factory was a fun Classic strat…)

[rjclayton]

Yes, but what are your thoughts on delaying moving the med fleet west by 1 round on the channel dash?

[ankmcfly]

I hate, as Germany, to vacate the only port that defends the capital. Gonna have to really think about this one.
If I’m UK and I see that fleet move, I will kill it at all cost. And beg the US to help!

[Jennifer]

Channel Dash is fun, it almost forces the Allies to build heavy navy just to stop you.  Can delay the fall of Germany a significant amount of time if Japan can pick up the pace a little.

[JLord]

Right, well I don’t usually abandon the baltic either, but I think it’s pretty clear to me now that you either add to the baltic fleet or go for the channel dash.  Leaving it there without adding to it is nonsensical.