They need to put out a China expansion also. I know they are working on one but I’m curious to know how it will effect this strategy.
Seems US being able to do tech out of the gate is broken. Them starting the war with whatever they want is a little nuts.
What do you guys think?
No one can roll for tech until July of 39.
Sorry, I wasnt clear - we start at the 39 start date.
My point is that a US player can tech like crazy at 39, and have a few turns to burn which was not really very historic. Wondering if anyone delayed US tech rolling for a couple of turns as a house rule.
For example, in our recent game the US is entering the war with Jets, Heavy bombers and Heavy tanks.
What are your thoughts?
Honestly its not If America wants to Spend a lot of IPP early-on, on technology knowing it is still only a chance that you will roll the number of times needed is still not high. That is IPP that could be used any where else including Lend Lease or building up Ships, Planes etc. its just a trade off depending on your strategies. Not only that if you delay the United States from rolling on Tech then it makes it that much harder for the allies to win with VC, And if you want to play Historically then you already know who wins the war before you start =p
They need to put out a China expansion also. I know they are working on one but I’m curious to know how it will effect this strategy.
I agree! Flesh it out a bit. 😊
Personally, I patriotically want a Canada expansion!
I can’t see why not, even from a manufacturing perspective, HBG’s second or third biggest clientele is probably in Canada.
Anyone have a valid conclusion as to how Japan can declare war on another Nation before they reach 22 IPP with out Attacking China?
Looking at the GW36 reference sheet for Japan it list the countries Japan can declare war upon.
So I am assuming war-time income is not a prerequisite for them?
Yeah, if you read the other war rules for nations they say things like “Yes when at full production” or other condition. That is from the Great Britain. The Axis typically can declare without any conditions.
Yeah, if you read the other war rules for nations they say things like “Yes when at full production” or other condition. That is from the Great Britain. The Axis typically can declare without any conditions.
Yeah I get what your saying but the Allies need to meet a Prerequisite before they can attack since they are " the good guys defending right?" … but the axis such as Germany already have their prerequisite already met by starting off at 20. so they can declare war at anytime… Italy Collects 7 (10) territory value and also has the ability to declare war at anytime because that value is met, but with Japan. they start out with 16 and that is also the value of its territory but it states that they need 22 IPP to declare war.
That chart lets the player know that Japan Can Declare war on any of those nations but doesn’t necessarily have the means or current ability to do so.
I also played with not attacking China and going after other nations but then again that doesn’t mean that we played it correctly
I think that 22 IPC is from the 1939 war where they have overrun part of China. It should not be their “wartime” income in 1936 since Japan can declare war on the US on turn one but will not go up to 22 (Their initial wartime income is 16). However Japan can declare war on most any nation they wish. On the reference sheet for each nations is usually a chart showing whom they can attack and what condition apply. For Japan they can not declare on Germany or Italy but anyone else seems fair game.
The 22 IPP part is both for 36, and 39 Set up …
I am sure you are like me and hold fast on the rules, and being such that it is required to have 22 IPP in 36 set up to declare war on any major power. Not only that but where in the rules or any where on the Japanese reference sheet does it say that Japan can also declare war freely on China? Mind you it states that Japan CAN go to war with those nations but it needs to meet a prerequisite to be able to declare war correct? If you hold one nation to a standard and not another? … if you choose to peruse that route it also states on the USSR reference sheet under where USSR can go to war with it clearly states that in Jan 1939 USSR can also ((Axis and their aligned minors Yes (January 1939 or later). )) … So which is it? do we no play with meeting War Time income and just go by what we think or feel or want or stick to the rules?
My only issue is this game is a wonderful game that needs Countless hours of proof reading and clarifying what you can or cant do. Other wise you find your self in a situation that is conflicting with one another.
Mind you I absolutely understand what you are saying because we play the same way with the same thinking in logic. Its just playing devils advocate here and questioning how and why with rules that seem to be quite suede
Although it’s not explicitly stated, the governing principle is that a nation must reach its wartime income to declare war. This is supported in Note 14 (p.76) of v1.2 rules:
“The process of coming to war is represented by nations gearing up their military spending and production…”
I think the problem with Japan is that its wartime income for the 1936 start should be 16. That would clear up all the confusion and make the declaring war rule consistent for all nations. And it would make 1936 Japan exactly the same as 1936 Germany i.e. its starting income = its wartime income. The other option is that something is missing from Japan’s peacetime bonus income table that would allow it to get to 22.
I posted this as a question on HBG’s site. I’ll post the answer here as soon as I get it.
Yeah I saw that. I think its a error on their part, But I love playing devils advocate as well. We did the same thing in our party and group. Japan war time income for 1936 is left at 16 just like each other axis nation.
But that also begs to question the issue with the Soviet Union and them being able to Declare war on axis nations in Jan of 39? that seems silly.
I think that ‘Can Declare War on’ table is primarily diplomatic, not military. The USSR is diplomatically capable of declaring war as early as January 39. But if the world is still a friendly place to them, their economy isn’t geared up for war so overrides diplomacy and won’t allow it. If nothing else happens to make the world dangerous (like an attack by Germany) then, on average, they’ll be at 46 IPP by then end of 1941.
yeah, so so much clarification needs to be addressed in this game. To much information is based off of best guess interpretation and not fact. I think we need version 1.3 and a lot of clarifying to be done. but I agree
As for the Russians I see how they are able to attack any nation Starting July 1939, The Sleeping Bear Rule. Just Russia Doesn’t go to Max war time Economy … so that is at lest figured out on my end. That still leaves Japan and its IPP confusion
Agreed – we need v1.3.
I am not sure where the confusion lies with Japan and war declaration.
“Each nation has different conditions under which it can declare war which are listed on their National Reference Sheet. In some cases, the nation only needs to reach its full Wartime Income level. In other cases there are more conditions to be met. Once you are able to declare war you may do so at any time, even during another player’s turn.”
This is the rule regarding declaring war. Now granted it is poorly word the line “more conditions” should read “different conditions”. However it clearly states the national reference sheet lists the condition to declare war. Japan’s are simple. They can declare war on any nation other than Italy and Germany. Using information from other National Reference sheets obscures the matter. For each nation only the core rules and its reference sheet apply.
Japan has no income criteria to declare war. There is no “governing principle” that a nation must be at full income to declare war, however to execute the war to it fullest extent certainly. Russia can declare on Japan in Jan 1939 if that is a strategically valuable option to the Russian. He must wage that war with 8 IPP per turn plus the d12 after July '39 but he may invade Manchuria and kill Japanese units to his fullest ability.
I will also add my voice in support of a version 1.3 (as well as a 1.4 and 1.5) to clean up different grey area and bad wording.
If you would like to see the extent of the shenanigans that the rules currently allow following an Axis War Dec.
German war dec a minor
Russia …. Declares war on Domincian Republic
Monroe Doctrine triggered
USA responds with war dec on Russia
USA goes to 76 IPC
Russia goes to 45
USA War dec Germany and Japan (probably attacked someone by Germany first attack)
UK War Decs Russia
Uk War Decs germany
France War Decs Russia
France War decs Germany
Germany completes invasion of minor thinking “WTF!!!”
Allies and Soviets all go full production and consume the Axis player before facing down in a final clash of the titans, most likely won by the Allies.
