Russia Round 1 Attacks

[Stalebrew]

With low luck dice on it is actually pretty likely to take Belorussia, West Russia, and Ukraine.  The closest battle is probably Belorussia with 3 inf and a fighter vs. 3 inf.  But early on I would trade units with Germ if I am Russia because I typically play the KGF strategy for the allies.

[newpaintbrush]

@Stalebrew:

With low luck dice on it is actually pretty likely to take Belorussia, West Russia, and Ukraine.  The closest battle is probably Belorussia with 3 inf and a fighter vs. 3 inf.  But early on I would trade units with Germ if I am Russia because I typically play the KGF strategy for the allies.

That’s why I don’t like low luck.  Frankly, it doesn’t play out anywhere close to a game uysing regular luck.

[Crazy Ivan]

:|
Regular luck?!?c Sounds like a box full of  those mixed chocolates, you never know exactly what your gonna get.
Recently as the Axis, I placed a Panzer in the Ukraine, and an inf in West Russia from my bid pre-buy. I maintained control of both territories! I had a tank left in West Russia and a fighter in the Ukraine. I think that my opponent didn’t catch where I had placed my bid buys, and attacked too lite.
Anyway, I usually attack those two territories myself, for the Motherland ya know.
    Crazy Ivan  :roll:

[OneShot187]

How important is it to take out a German fighter on R1?  If you don’t attack the Ukraine then that leaves Germany with all 6 of its fighters.  I’ve also seen a lot of differnet unit combinations purchased on R1 based on a couple of games I’ve been looking at:

8 Inf; or
5 Inf, 1 Art, 1 Arm; or
4 Inf, 1 Fig, save 2 IPC; or
3 Inf, 3 Arm; etc.

I guess it all depends on what you plan to do on R2 and what your strategery is…

[newpaintbrush]

@OneShot187:

How important is it to take out a German fighter on R1?  If you don’t attack the Ukraine then that leaves Germany with all 6 of its fighters.

I don’t think it’s important to kill a German fighter on R1.

[Cobert]

I send enough units to take WRus with enough to defend it, and I send in enough units to Ukraine to kill everything but the fighter.  I dont like taking it, because that involves leaving armor on the front without any fodder.

[Guest]

It is actually an ILLEGAL strategy.  You can only place a territory’s IPC value of units at an IC each turn, and Caucuses has a limit of 4.

And being totally honest… if Russia does not take either West Russia or Ukraine on R1…  RUSSIA IS TOAST.

[Weekend Gamer]

I would go one further Switch and say that, if Russia doesn’t take W.Russia and at least strafe Ukraine, Russia is (or should be) toast.

[VonManstein]

I attack Ukraine and Western Russia. Ukraine is more important I feel. From our experience its game over Russia in 4 turns if Ukraine is not taken turn 1. I bring 3 inf, 1 art from Caucus, 3 arm, 2 fig. For Western Russia I crash 8 inf, 1 art, 1 arm from Russia-Karelia-Archangel leaving 1 inf in Archangel so Germany doesnt get a free territory. Makes Western Russia resistant to counter attack and allows russia some R2 attack flexibility. I’m rather aggressive with Russia if no strategic bombing
R1 4 arm, 1 inf - save 1 ipc
R2 6 arm
R3 depends on oppenent but I buy armour until The germans/Japan are knocking on the door. I let the UK bring in infantry on their transports.

[Jennifer]

@Gamer:

I would go one further Switch and say that, if Russia doesn’t take W.Russia and at least strafe Ukraine, Russia is (or should be) toast.

I agree.  But if Ukraine is too strong, I might pile everything and the AA gun from Caucasus in W. Russia and then retake Caucasus on the next round.  Trick here is remembering you can only purchase 8 units next round.

Anyway, I’ve never been a fan of Low Luck.  3 Submarines should not automatically be a hit. According to frood, they only have an 85% chance of winning a battle against a solitary, defending aircraft carrier, and the carrier has a 28% chance of surviving all three of the submarines.  But in low luck, the submarines have a 100% chance of sinking the carrier without casualty.

I also find that low luck takes longer to play then traditional.  This is because you rely on the calculators instead of trying to mentally calculate that you’ll want that extra fighter instead of opening another battle with it, just to be safe. :P

[Romulus]

I usually attach for conquering West Russia with 9 INF, 1 ART and 1 TANK.
Then I strafe Ukraine with 3 INF, 1 ART, 3 TANK and 2 FIG usually losing all the INFs and ART and saving TANK (and FIG!), but killing all German Infantry.
In my opinion this is the minimun and more conservative opening move allowed to Russia on R1. Being more conservative than this may create early problem on the russian western front.
For purchasing usually I go for 5 INF, 1 ART and 1 TANK.
Deployement is 3 INF and 1 ART in Caucasus and 2 inf and 1 TANK in Moscow.

[Weekend Gamer]

Jenn, you are correct that, if you have too many bid pieces in Ukraine, you must adapt your Russian strategy accordingly.  You also have to be careful when Germany bids an extra transport in sz14.  That can make defending Caucuses REALLY dicey.

[OneShot187]

@Cobert:

I send enough units to take WRus with enough to defend it, and I send in enough units to Ukraine to kill everything but the fighter.  I dont like taking it, because that involves leaving armor on the front without any fodder.

I just started my first game online and am playing as the allies.  I ended up taking West Russia with 7 Inf, 1 Art, 1 Arm and ended up taking Ukraine with 3 Arm because I was set on destroying that fighter.  I don’t really know how to strafe properly but I will try beating up on Ukraine next time instead of taking it and see what happens.  I also bought 3 Inf and 3 Arm for a little more firepower.

So yeah, on Germany 1 I am sure he will roll right over my 3 Arm I have sitting in Ukraine.  Didn’t really think about strafing because I gained 3 IPC and he lost a valuable fighter.  Plus I got a big stack in West Russia and 3 more Arm in Russia to head right back into Ukraine on Russia 2.

What can I say, I’m a noob!

[Jennifer]

Yea, a German transport in SZ 14 as a bid, forces the allies to go very heavy in Africa, stationing massive airpower in N. Africa for use in sinking the Med fleet.  Can be a good tactic for Geramny, can blow up in their faces by necessitating their loss of control in Africa early.

[vanzant316]

Well, seeing the Russian player attack 3 territories would plaster a big confident grin on my face, because I’d think he’d very probably fail somewhere and take heavy casualties.

If the Russian player WON all three, I’d call in the cat.  (Yeah, that’s right, jump up on the table!  Haahahahahaha!).  LOSING all three battles is not cool for Germany at all.

Russia doesn’t need to slowly build if it makes that hypothetical three territory grab.  Initial territory advantage translates into funds for tanks.  Russia can always fall back, and Germany still has to deal with the loss of its units on Germany’s eastern front.

I’ve had this happen to me while playing Germany.  It was due largely to some incredibly one-sided dice rolls.  While it leaves Russia spread thin, the loss to the German Air Force is hard to deal with.

[vanzant316]

I like to build 5 Infantry, 1 artillery and 1 tank on Russia 1, then attack Eastern Europe, Ukraine and West Russia.  If you can take out the fighters in EU and Uk, you’ve significantly damaged the German player’s air force.

I’ve had games where I’ve won all three battles, won two/lost one and lost two/won one.  Losing two can put the Russians on the defense but doesn’t even come close to taking you out of the game.

You also have to note there that we play the game straight out of the box with no special rules, bidding or national advantages.

[Guest]

As Germany I would love a 3 territory R1 open, barring really crappy dice for Germany’s defenders.

[tcnance]

i have to agree with switch 3 territorys is a bit much for russia to chew

[Romulus]

In our initial games Russian player attacked only West Russia, with minimal forces, supported by 1 tank and the aircrafts, and grouping all the other units in Caucasus. But we found that Germany may counterattack west Russia strafing the infantry stack there, and then withdraw to Ukraina. And this creates a lot of problem for Russian armies.
Now we usually attack another territory other than West Russia, usually Bielorussia, trying to conquer it or Ukraina. The better thing to do with Ukraina, IMHO is to strafe it, saving the precious russian tank, but in some games the strafe had gone too deep, causing the destruction of all German forces. I believe that conquering Ukraina it is a bad situation more for Russia that for Germany.

[Magister]

With normal dice (not Low Luck) it’s impractical to just “strafe” Ukraine because of the large variance - and you all are right - the risk of “too good dice” and leaving tanks stranded against counterattack. Better go to the end, kill the fighter, take the 3 IPC. German T1 counterattack may be limited and/or exposing their tanks too, due to lack of fighters (at most 1 after pressing Med and Egypt missions).

With the best forces available there:
RUS 3i,1a,3t,2f = 21 firepower, or 3.5 killed on average. May kill an arty, is it worth that ? If it kills the tank, then it’s “too close” to that “too good”.
GER 3i,1a,1t,1f = 15 firepower, or 2.5 killed on average

And if Russians send less, say one tank less, then it’s 18:15, too ‘fair’ attrition. Germany may like that ;-) Say it goes 3:3 in the first round, then what ? To stay one more round is “too good”, to withdraw is just equal attrition.

On the other hand, with Low Luck I send 3i,1a,2t,2f (one tank less, sent to WRU instead) with good chances to gain it with 2arm left.