true. but given a game where the allies decide to go for germany, wouldnt germany be harder then russia?
Perhaps, but KGF wasn’t a given in your opening post :wink:
Actually, the bid has a lot to do with it. If you are playing with no bid, then I think the allies should win many more games than the axis, making Germany the hardest capital to keep. But if you play with a bid, the game should be about 50-50 wins for Axis and Allies, so my earlier post stands.
Now, ASSUMING the allies go KGF in a bid game, would Germany’s capital be harder to keep than Russia’s capital? I think they would be about the same (given a 50-50 win ratio). I can’t see how it would be any harder for Germany. Thoughts?
The reason I think it would be harder is you have 3 countries in IMMEDIATE stricking distance of berlin…whereas russia only has one (germany) and eventually japan (probably).
The US is in IMMEDIATE striking distance of Berlin? I don’t think so. They need to move their transport and troops within range, but realistically build a bunch more transports first, and of course make sure they have the capital ships to protect them. UK too must build transports and capital ship protection.
Japan on the other hand can immediately build ICs on the mainland and never really look back. They will probably build a few transports but already have the capital ships to protect them. And after a few short turns Japan usually has the same income as Russia and UK combined anyway. Russia is usually in just as much danger as Germany. IMO.
what i meant “immediate” is that the three main allied areas of productions (i.e. capital) are all a stones throw away from berlin. So while it may take 2 turns, they can get to germany, or at least german territory that is worth some IPCs (western europe, souther europe)
True, but after the first few turns Japan’s “main” area of production (their new ICs on the mainland) are all a stone’s throw away from Moscow too.
Anyway, this debate is kinda getting old with just two participants :-P
I have come to realize more and more since I have been on this site that there are to many variables to make a general statement like “witch country is the hardest†You not only have to include the aspects of each country but also each player. Some players may be better at tactics and outrival others as Germany others good at statistics and probability and do well conserving Russian forces wile still others talents may shine in economics and excel as the US.
So it’s hard to say because there is no true answer. 8-)
-LT04
true….but broad questions leave room for debate…
Touché old bean, touché
-LT04
Here’s a vote Germany. It is usually the main target of all 3 allies. Unlike Russia, it can count on very little help from it’s teammate.
It has to maintain 3 fronts continuously, and while doing so, push the eastern front away from it’s supply lines. Because of it’s location, it’s purchase decisions are more difficult than Russia’s.
Russia does not buy ships, nor does it have consider if it needs them, so Russia has 4 purchase options (INF,ARM,ART,FIG) I see no need for a Russain Bomber, but make it 5 if you must. Germany may need those high dollar ships, and a wrong puchase or bad dice can waste tons of IPCs quickly. Lastly, even when boxed in, Russia can expect her partners to be nipping at Germany’s heels.
Once Germany is boxed in, it’s typically over.
Yeah, I would agree that Germany is the hardest of the 5 powers to play.
But the thread was about which capital was harder to hold, and I still think Moscow is.
Wich high dollar ships are you talking about nub? Germany doesn’t buy ships!
Yeah, I would agree that Germany is the hardest of the 5 powers to play.
But the thread was about which capital was harder to hold, and I still think Moscow is.
I would argue that Germany is BOTH the hardest to play and Hardest capital to hold.
Wich high dollar ships are you talking about nub? Germany doesn’t buy ships!
Re-read what is said. (MAY NEED)
A blanket statement about what Germany buys is funny. I’ve only been on this forum for a few weeks and I
have seen people posting all over the place about Germany buying ships, and which ones make sense.
And they are people who are not (nubs?) noobs like me (who has played A&A since the first edtion came out.)
BTW - How could Germany ever take UK Capital without ships? I know, they could take the Chunnel!
Yeah, I would agree that Germany is the hardest of the 5 powers to play.
But the thread was about which capital was harder to hold, and I still think Moscow is.
I would argue that Germany is BOTH the hardest to play and Hardest capital to hold.
AGREED.
When you say the Geman capital is harder to keep, are you disagree with the below analysis? What part do you disagree with?
I would say Russia, because proven strats have been developed where the axis either go after Germany first or Japan first (KGF/KJF), but pretty much every Allied strat involves Taking down Russia first.
If we assume Axis win 50% and Allies win 50%, then the breakdown of who loses their capital first should look something like this:
Russia - 49%
Germany - 45%
Japan - 5%
UK - 1%
USA - 0%
Blanket statements like “Germany doesn’t buy ships” are funny, and can always be proven wrong by some wacky buy, but in this case I think a statement like this is reasonably accurate. (A statement that Russia doesn’t buy ships could also be proven wrong!) If you have been reading about German naval buys on these forums, perhaps you were reading in the revised threads? Since I don’t remember any threads like that in this classic area. I agree with Bashir that any German naval buy in classic is a bad idea.
Wich high dollar ships are you talking about nub? Germany doesn’t buy ships!
Re-read what is said. (MAY NEED)
A blanket statement about what Germany buys is funny. I’ve only been on this forum for a few weeks and I
have seen people posting all over the place about Germany buying ships, and which ones make sense.
And they are people who are not (nubs?) noobs like me (who has played A&A since the first edtion came out.)
BTW - How could Germany ever take UK Capital without ships? I know, they could take the Chunnel!
My belief is that unless the axis can take out russia, the game is lost. But russia is easy to play (IMO) and the US and UK SHOULD be able to take down germany and japan.
So Zosima, you think that the allies should win every time? I am with you there is you play without a bid. If you play with a bid I wonder why the allies would still win every time? Are you bidding too low for the axis?
my conclusion is this…
Even with a bid in the 15-20 range, i think the allies should win EVERY time. Here is my thinking on why…
IPC counts from the get go…
USSR = 24 + UK = 30 + US= 36
this means a total IPC of 90
GR = 32 + JP25 = 57.
so, hypothetically even if germany is able to get another 12 IPC and japan another12 (these are rough guesses)
the the total would be 81 and 66.
with russia buying nothing but infantry the should be able to hold out for awhile, even with germany and japan pressuring.
Aperica, using my strategy, is bombing germany strategically so germany isnt getting near the 45 IPC’s they COULD be getting. They are getting far less. (very often they end up collecting in the 12-19 range because of all my bombers.
And then its just a matter of time. Pressure + time = allied victory.
So why would you or your opponent bid in the 12-19 range for axis knowing that you are going to get smoked? On this board I’ve only seen bids in the 21-26 range. If your group bid in this range, do you think the axis would fare better?
I think Germany is the hardest with Russia being a close second.
I think Germany is the hardest because even with a large bid, if you have one screw-up or bad roll it can really cost you, whereas if Russia has a bad roll it is a bit easier for the UK and US to go into full protection mode of Russia then it would be for Japan to help Germany.
Germany has a lot of first rd “must” attacks that a bid may not help, they have to kill the Brit fleet, take out the Gib BB, possibly kill the sub in the Med, possbily take out the UK trn off Ecan, and take out Egy, and that ignores Europe. Â Even with a PAfr bid that is a lot of battles that can possibly go wrong.
Russia worst case, can play extremely defensive early on and still be quite a powerful force mid game.
It is always cheaper and easier to defend, thus the pressure is always on the Axis to do something and shift the momentum early on so you can make your move sometime in rd 4-8, but that is easier said then done and any delay or set back can be costly.
