@Baron:
In your game MedBomber 4 @2/12 carpet bombing is a real one each combat round.
Same odds as OOB 4/6, but it is 4 rolls @1. Acting like 4 infantry attacking.I will try to crunch on this special roll.
4 Infs @1 means 4/6* up to 4 hits for 16 strength points (pipshit) while one regular bomber is
1 roll @4 means 4/6 up to 1 hit for 4 strength.
2 roll @4 means 8/6* up to 2 hits for 16 strength.So, Med bombers are like twice stronger than OOB G40 StB, assuming same cost.
Because you have more rolls for same odds, you can reduce faster the enemy defending stack for the same attacker sustaining capacity.To make them even with OOB, in D12, it needs 2 rolls @2/12 for 42 hits = **8 points of strength in D12s pipshit**
Or, mostly, 3 rolls @1/12 for or 3@1/123 hits = **9 points of strength in D12s pipshit**But you only have 1 hit of sustaining power per bomber…
I think I’m slowly understanding this particular type of dice mechanic.
Comparing both Medium:
A 4d12s @2 ground only every round
A 2d12s @2 naval only every round
and Heavy bomber:
A 3d12s @3 ground only every round
A 2d12s @3 naval only every roundKeepings D12s pipshits
Medium Bomber
4 @2 means 8 pips up to 4 hits for 32 strength points or pips*hit
2 @2 means 4 pips* up to 2 hits for 8 pips*hits
1 @2 means 2 pips* up to 1 hit for 2 pips*hitsHeavy bomber:
3 @3 means 9 pips* up to 3 hits for 27 pips*hits
2 @3 means 6 pips* up to 2 hits for 12 pips*hits
1 @3 means 3 pips* up to 1 hit for 3 pips*hitsThis means Medium bomber are more efficient at land units even if less accurate (smaller odds 8/12) than Heavy (9/12) and can be better to lower down enemy stack.
If I compare with YG 3@ 5/8 or 3@3/8.
5/8 means in D12s pips 7.5/12
3/8 means 4.5/12StBs on land:
3 @7.5 means 22.5 pips* up to 3 hits for 67.5 pips*hits for 1 round onlyStBs at sea:
3 @4.5 means 13.5 pips* up to 3 hits for 40.5 pips*hits for 1 round only
YG numbers should be higher due to only one round of combat
@SS:
But you would be amazed how much u dont get hits. Remember we lowered I believe from 4 d12 @3 I think. Id have to go back and look.
That is the part I’m not sure.
Can I consider 100% of dice rolled, or just according to each probable odds of a hit (so 2@4 and 4@2 would be same strength as 1@8)?
IDK.
I need to find those old numbers I had and you posted the new values for bombers. I know Naval hit % is lower which I like but if I remember we gave same odds but added a die and lowered the @ number 1 and like u said try the 333 and the 222
It was 3d12 @4 for one round of combat only and any rolls of 1 kill with a no return shot when I first tried carpet bombing.
Subs can submerge after DF or Tac FS
Subs doing FS have to stay surfaced.
Cannot submerge until next round of combat.
Submerged subs after 1 round of combat can
1. Resurface
2. Stay Submerged
3. Escape @3. Place on map same sz.
If escape roll fails Sub has to resurface.
Surfaced subs can be taken as casualties.
GW40 SS sequence:
1. DF or Tac FS
2. Submerge or Sub’s First strike
3. Depth charge (DD @3 targeting submerged Subs, instead of general combat)
4. General combat
5. Escape or else:
a) Resurface or b) Stay Submerged
c) Escape attempt for Sub @3. Place on map same SZ if succeed.
If escape roll fails, Sub has to resurface.
d) Escape attempt for Transport @2, if alone and being attacked by only subs or planes and is not killed per round.
All surfaced subs can be taken as casualties
All Destroyers can be taken as casualties
Am I right?
@Baron:
Subs can submerge after DF or Tac FS
Subs doing FS have to stay surfaced.
Cannot submerge until next round of combat.
Submerged subs after 1 round of combat can
1. Resurface
2. Stay Submerged
3. Escape @3. Place on map same sz.
If escape roll fails Sub has to resurface.
Surfaced subs can be taken as casualties.GW40 SS sequence:
1. DF or Tac FS
2. Submerge or Sub’s First strike
3. Depth charge (DD @3 targeting submerged Subs, instead of general combat)
4. General combat
5. Escape or else:
a) Resurface or b) Stay Submerged
c) Escape attempt for Sub @3. Place on map same SZ if succeed.
If escape roll fails, Sub has to resurface.
d) Escape attempt for Transport @2, if alone and being attacked by only subs or planes and is not killed per round.All surfaced subs can be taken as casualties
All Destroyers can be taken as casualtiesAm I right?
Yes but d) Escape attempt for Transport @2, if alone and being attacked by surface ships and or subs or planes and is not killed
Per round.
Yes but d) Escape attempt for Transport @2, if alone and being attacked by surface ships and or subs or planes and is not killed
Per round.
This have no part in Naval sequence?
@Baron:
Yes but d) Escape attempt for Transport @2, if alone and being attacked by surface ships and or subs or planes and is not killed
Per round.This have no part in Naval sequence?
Yes it does
@SS:
@Baron:
Subs can submerge after DF or Tac FS
Subs doing FS have to stay surfaced.
Cannot submerge until next round of combat.
Submerged subs after 1 round of combat can
1. Resurface
2. Stay Submerged
3. Escape @3. Place on map same sz.
If escape roll fails Sub has to resurface.
Surfaced subs can be taken as casualties.GW40 SS sequence:
1. DF or Tac FS
2. Submerge or Sub’s First strike
3. Depth charge (DD @3 targeting submerged Subs, instead of general combat)
4. General combat
5. Escape or else:
a) Resurface or b) Stay Submerged
c) Escape attempt for Sub @3. Place on map same SZ if succeed.
If escape roll fails, Sub has to resurface.
d) Escape attempt for Transport @2, if alone and being attacked by only subs or planes and is not killed per round.All surfaced subs can be taken as casualties
All Destroyers can be taken as casualtiesAm I right?
Yes but d) Escape attempt for Transport @2, if alone and being attacked by surface ships and or subs or planes and is not killed
Per round.
So what do you intent to mean with your last comment?
@Baron:
@SS:
@Baron:
Subs can submerge after DF or Tac FS
Subs doing FS have to stay surfaced.
Cannot submerge until next round of combat.
Submerged subs after 1 round of combat can
1. Resurface
2. Stay Submerged
3. Escape @3. Place on map same sz.
If escape roll fails Sub has to resurface.
Surfaced subs can be taken as casualties.GW40 SS sequence:
1. DF or Tac FS
2. Submerge or Sub’s First strike
3. Depth charge (DD @3 targeting submerged Subs, instead of general combat)
4. General combat
5. Escape or else:
a) Resurface or b) Stay Submerged
c) Escape attempt for Sub @3. Place on map same SZ if succeed.
If escape roll fails, Sub has to resurface.
d) Escape attempt for Transport @2, if alone and being attacked by only subs or planes and is not killed per round.All surfaced subs can be taken as casualties
All Destroyers can be taken as casualtiesAm I right?
Yes but d) Escape attempt for Transport @2, if alone and being attacked by surface ships and or subs or planes and is not killed
Per round.So what do you intent to mean with your last comment?
I meant lone transports can escape if being attacked by Any naval ship or planes.
Sorry.
I did not realized you included surface warships too.
Its fine. Just no autokill for all attacking pieces.
You dont like it ?
2 DD
2 CR
2 BB attacking
5 Transports.
2 DD = 1 hit
2 CR = 1 hit
2 BB = 1 hit
3 hits 3 Transports killed
2 Transports escape roll 1,2
2 Transports escape
No ?
@SS:
Its fine. Just no autokill for all attacking pieces.
You dont like it ?
2 DD
2 CR
2 BB attacking5 Transports.
2 DD = 1 hit
2 CR = 1 hit
2 BB = 1 hit
3 hits 3 Transports killed
2 Transports escape roll 1,2
2 Transports escapeNo ?
I’m all ok with this.
I just copy-paste from TP : “d) Escape attempt for Transport @2, if alone and being attacked by only subs or planes and is not killed per round.”
I did not realize you slightly change to include surface vessels in comment below.
“d) Escape attempt for Transport @2, if alone and being attacked by surface ships and or subs or planes and is not killed per round.”
Got some more turns in game. Germany ready to take Stalingrad and Italy taking back Cairo in 2 turns maybe giving the Axis 29 points soon. There at 26 right know. UK landed in Norway. Even though UK sacrificed a lot there it made Germany retreat its major pieces back to Norway with there planes giving Russia a extra turn buy. They are holding there own. Will see if Germany taking Stalingrad will cost them on Russias counter if they have enough. With the Air Base ( Fig- Tac M6 ) in Moscow it makes Italy and Germany to bring Navy support with there transports other wise the figs can hit in Turkey sz or Leningrad sz.
As you can see as in war the convoy axis raiding has slowed do to time to get Russia.
Japan has been being hit hard for the first time in the Pacific. US trying to get close enough to do a landing. Japan figs on Toyko with the M of 6 for figs have countered any US landing in Soviet far East. Fec will not lose Calcutta and some movement now finally in islands. With that 2nd IC in India has helped Fec hold Calcutta and now being able to buy some navy and hopefully get some pressure on Italy as soon as possible.
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After 8 turns there is 10 techs out there in game so far. This is normal. US got there NA Fast Carriers M3 at start of turn and this works good with the Cruisers M3 for faster support towards Japan. More Cruisers are being bought in the Pacific for US and Japan.
US also got Super Subs Tech 2 turns ago so now the Subs A6 D3 and are being bought for Japan navy attacks coming soon with fleet so planes cant hit them except Tac-N Dive B.
The sub cant hit sub rule is sweet. Subs were passing each other in the Atlantic. US even got a sub in the Med for 2 turns to force Italy to buy a destroyer on a turn because all they had were transports and a Battleship. No figs in Rome to scramble. Italy Tac bomber missed the US sub 3 times !
So far it doesnt seem like the new piece values are favoring anybody or anything in game so far.
There seems to be more smaller naval battles in the both sides of theater do to the Cruiser M3, Tac-Dive hitting Subs, Naval Fig-Dive B only M4 from anywhere, Subs not being able to hit Subs, and the Fig-Tac M5-6AB.
Will see what happens. Looks like a allies victory if US can get to the Philliphines with Anzac support.
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@SS:
After 8 turns there is 10 techs out there in game so far. This is normal. US got there NA Fast Carriers M3 at start of turn and this works good with the Cruisers M3 for faster support towards Japan. More Cruisers are being bought in the Pacific for US and Japan.
US also got Super Subs Tech 2 turns ago so now the Subs A6 D3 and are being bought for Japan navy attacks coming soon with fleet so planes cant hit them except Tac-N Dive B.The sub cant hit sub rule is sweet. Subs were passing each other in the Atlantic. US even got a sub in the Med for 2 turns to force Italy to buy a destroyer on a turn because all they had were transports and a Battleship. No figs in Rome to scramble. Italy Tac bomber missed the US sub 3 times !
So far it doesnt seem like the new piece values are favoring anybody or anything in game so far.
There seems to be more smaller naval battles in the both sides of theater do to the Cruiser M3, Tac-Dive hitting Subs, Naval Fig-Dive B only M4 from anywhere, Subs not being able to hit Subs, and the Fig-Tac M5-6AB.Will see what happens. Looks like a allies victory if US can get to the Philliphines with Anzac support.
It seems to be very promising and to be actually interesting to have so many more options because of units abilities. It is very appropriate to get many smaller battles in many SZs. I rather prefer this.
Now, US fast Carrier can work tandem with Cruiser. Pretty useful when front line is far away along asian coastal SZ.
Land vs carrier based aircraft seems to be working pretty well.
TacB cannot always hit on marks against Subs in offense when patrolling SZ, increasing survivability and creating the annoying effect of needing to protect surface vessels against them, as it should. For instance, Italy needing to purchase a DD otherwise BB becoming vulnerable to US Sub. Without the rule “Sub cannot hit sub”, Italy would have kept a Sub along BB and not be afraid of US Sub first strike. Now, it is mandatory to purchase DD to counter Sub.
IMO, it is a small price to pay about a lesser ship-to-ship depiction (as we know that Subs were sinking Sub sometimes, mainly US vs Japan) to gain a better operational depiction of Subs against surface vessels. Like Destroyers are needed to protect and escort surface vessels against Subs.
@SS:
Got some more turns in game. Germany ready to take Stalingrad and Italy taking back Cairo in 2 turns maybe giving the Axis 29 points soon. There at 26 right know. UK landed in Norway. Even though UK sacrificed a lot there it made Germany retreat its major pieces back to Norway with there planes giving Russia a extra turn buy. They are holding there own. Will see if Germany taking Stalingrad will cost them on Russias counter if they have enough. With the Air Base ( Fig- Tac M6 ) in Moscow it makes Italy and Germany to bring Navy support with there transports other wise the figs can hit in Turkey sz or Leningrad sz.
As you can see as in war the convoy axis raiding has slowed do to time to get Russia.Japan has been being hit hard for the first time in the Pacific. US trying to get close enough to do a landing. Japan figs on Toyko with the M of 6 for figs have countered any US landing in Soviet far East. Fec will not lose Calcutta and some movement now finally in islands. With that 2nd IC in India has helped Fec hold Calcutta and now being able to buy some navy and hopefully get some pressure on Italy as soon as possible.
Interesting for Soviet to get more options with Land-based TcB or Fg, the additional 1 IPC worth it for them, Soviet get no use of naval aircraft. Also, TcB are much more accurate against German’s Artillery or Tank which is pretty depicting how Soviet Shturmovik Ill-2, were kind of air tanks on German’s lines.
Japan can cover more SZs, making US escorting vessel mandatory to land in Soviet Far East.
You have so many distance on your map that M5-6 is not a luxury.
I might add that on your map, these two types of aircraft make for a more complex planing strategy to use them at maximum effectiveness.
2 ICs for FEC seems working.
What exactly means FEC?
@Baron:
@SS:
Got some more turns in game. Germany ready to take Stalingrad and Italy taking back Cairo in 2 turns maybe giving the Axis 29 points soon. There at 26 right know. UK landed in Norway. Even though UK sacrificed a lot there it made Germany retreat its major pieces back to Norway with there planes giving Russia a extra turn buy. They are holding there own. Will see if Germany taking Stalingrad will cost them on Russias counter if they have enough. With the Air Base ( Fig- Tac M6 ) in Moscow it makes Italy and Germany to bring Navy support with there transports other wise the figs can hit in Turkey sz or Leningrad sz.
As you can see as in war the convoy axis raiding has slowed do to time to get Russia.Japan has been being hit hard for the first time in the Pacific. US trying to get close enough to do a landing. Japan figs on Toyko with the M of 6 for figs have countered any US landing in Soviet far East. Fec will not lose Calcutta and some movement now finally in islands. With that 2nd IC in India has helped Fec hold Calcutta and now being able to buy some navy and hopefully get some pressure on Italy as soon as possible.
Interesting for Soviet to get more options with Land-based TcB or Fg, the additional 1 IPC worth it for them, Soviet get no use of naval aircraft.
Japan can cover more SZs, making US escorting vessel mandatory to land in Soviet Far East.
You have so many distance on your map that M5-6 is not a luxury.
I might add that on your map, these two types of aircraft make for a more complex planing strategy to use them at maximum effectiveness.2 ICs for FEC seems working.
What exactly means FEC?
Far East command
Got 11 turns in now and the Axis have still a slight chance maybe ? Allies landed in West Germany but Germany should take it back now with less pressure now on taking Stalingrad which they did. With a most buy in Pacific for US Italy still was able to come back and support Germany. But now they probably wont get back Cairo do to Allies landings in Paris where they need to support Germany.
With the Figs and Tacs getting a move of 5 and 6 from an airbase this makes Germany have to have some kind of navy for any Russian planes coming from Moscow by the Leningrad sz to protect there transports. Plus it benefits both UK and Germany also.
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US lost most of there fleet getting back Manilla a few turns ago and now with mostly US Pacific buys has helped FEC and China put some pressure on Japan in Saigon area. The US got the Tech Super Subs A6 D3 C7 and had 8 subs with fleet but decided to keep them on the surface for fodder in the big naval battle for Manilla. Would of been nice to see if them subs would of gotten in on some sneak attacks. Ill call them Labrador Packs. With the M6 AB figs are deadly from any Capital defense and going out aways to attack or defend.
With Naval planes only M4 and can only land on Carriers in game, now Japan cant just have a walk in the park. There still deadly with there planes if you position them right.
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