Global War 1940 2nd ed.

[General 6 Stars]

@Baron:

@SS:

Finally had a sub dest tac only battle. Italy got a free tech at start of T5 now and got Super Subs Tech. So now they get subs at A6 D3. So they decide to Attack with
Italy
1 Tac
3 Subs
vs
US
2 Subs
3 Dest

Rd 1 Attack
1 Tac FS roll a 3. 1 hit  
US sub submerges instead of D@2 with FS
US loses a sub no return fire.
3 subs roll 2,4,10  2 hits
US has to take 2 Dest for casualties.

Rd 2 attack
Tac no FS at Surfaced subs.
1 sub rolls FS 4. I hit no return fire
US takes last Dest out of game.

Now the US submerged sub decides to stay submerged due to Tac bomber flying over head.
So the question is because I probably forgot the sub would need to resurface no matter what if he tried an escape roll and failed.

Thanks for giving me the roster above.
It really helps understand.

I forgot that, in your GW40, TcB and NavalDB have no first strike outside Subs.
In your rule, it is easy to determine what value you use with TcB whether @3 or @7.
It was a long shot from Italy, here. I would have been more cautious and choose to attack US DD with an higher odds.
But it payed off for Italy, sinking this Sub.

You wrote: “US sub submerges instead of D@2 with FS”
But, according to “Sub cannot hit Sub”, they were only sitting duck against Italian TcB (which might have elect to attack Destroyers in regular combat). So there was no target for US Sub and makes sense to submerge.

You wrote: “1 sub rolls FS 4. 1 hit no return fire”
I cannot see why it was possible for Italian Sub to get a FS, since US Destroyer blocked it.
Unless it is an NA?
No. Thr Italians had 2 subs against 1 US destroyer for 2nd round of combat.

Played around with another turn and pics show results. Yes it is better if you can do convoy raiding inside boxes for damage and 1 damage ea ship or sub touching a convoy box. Gives the Axis more convoy raiding and does make Allies come get me. This also helps on pacific side to the point of at least getting a 1 or 2 damage on a convoy box without being inside one for US and Japan. Its better to have a sub do damage then a Dest if theres figs in the area and no Tac B. As you can see the US is got some kind of threat for raiders in the Atlantic side but also Italians are buying a few subs too to keep some kind of pressure on allies while allies buying more in Pacific side for the KJF plan. Plus US needs those Tacs also too.
With Germany taking Gibr and Azores island, it is preventing landing spots for the allies to use there Tac Bombers against German Wolf packs! Hey what do you know. Action finally in thee Atlantic !

I really like what you are describing.  :-) :-) :-)
More action in ATO, Azores and Gibraltar making sense to be captured to prevent Allies from using TcBs on u-boats.
Expanding Convoy Raiding boxes to adjacent SZs seems a winning idea.
(It feels like a target with a bull eyes when a Sub reach the central Convoy box.)

With figs not being able to hit subs the Tac is kinda a nice piece now with the Stg B hitting them as well. Plus as mentioned the Carriers only being able to hold naval D B and N figs and only moving 4 is huge in the game. Japan cant just go and Jam every plane in a battle. You have to plan your naval attacks on naval better ( land too ) and plan ahead. Also with ground planes M5 -6 with AB you are just constantly looking for all planes that can counter against you every where. You really need to think and look now. With the added stuff yes the game is a little slower but will speed up once people get used to the new added stuff to game.

It seems very interesting to specialize TcB vs Fighters (Naval or Land-based).
Not being able to hit Subs has a direct impact about how you make plans against aircraft or submarines.
There is more tactical decisions for battle and planning when purchasing.
Fighters provides a pretty good defense against all warships and planes, but have an Achilles’ heel: Sub!

A fleet with Carrier have to balance between Fg, DD and TcB to be well-rounded.

All this ring very promising: “For what its worth it is getting more Historical now than ever.”

According to my taste, there is probably a few special things to cut out, so you can speed up more the game.
But having more units and more possibilities is a great addition and it is normal that this slow the pace a bit. Clearly, I would not change these interesting variants between Naval and Land-based aircraft, as well as TcB vs Fighter specialization.

If I would change something, it would be around the sequence and too much combat values variation.
But this is another story…  :-D

For instance:

A7 Roll 4 or less can pick target with a return shot
A3 against surfaced subs only. No return shot
D5 Roll of 3 or less pick target with a return shot

I would make all: roll of 3 or less can pick target… (Easier to remember.)

I’m very happy you and all friends enjoyed all these new changes.

[General 6 Stars]

@Baron:

@SS:

@Baron:

@SS:

We got that right right ? Tac can only hit ground ? and now Surfaced sub @3.

I just need a yes or no on Tac hitting navy ? I know ive been playing it with ground only but I believe I forgot in game. Cant see why a Tac cant hit navy to.

Hurts Germans. But if its history then its history.

I never tried TcB targeting navy.

If about history, Dunkirk movie showed Stuka attacking Destroyers and TP.

From game POV, Tac are just land-based Dive bombers.
So, they can be part of naval combat.

Ha ha you trying to avoid an answer ? Lol. Well I need to decide. Was thinking of giving them a lower value like Stg bomb like a A5 D5 pick target. Just thinkin

Now, I better understand the question.

I would make something like:
TcB would be same as Naval Dive Bomber in Naval combat:
A7 Roll 3 or less pick target with a return shot
A3 against surfaced subs only. No return shot
D5 Roll 3 or less pick target with a return shot

And for simplicity, I would use @3 everywhere.

So, only TcB in land combat would pick target at their nominal combat values:
A@7
D@5

But, Naval Divebomber in land combat would keep:
A7 Roll 3 or less pick target with a return shot
D5 Roll 3 or less pick target with a return shot

So, @3 would be everywhere for special situation. Easier to remember.

What do you think?

Ya I agree. I made changes.

[baron Münchhausen]

You wrote: “1 sub rolls FS 4. 1 hit no return fire”
I cannot see why it was possible for Italian Sub to get a FS, since US Destroyer blocked it.
Unless it is an NA?
No. The Italians had 2 subs against 1 US destroyer for 2nd round of combat.

Is it a special Wolf-pack attack which allows First strike for Subs when 2 or more, even against Destroyers?

[General 6 Stars]

@Baron:

You wrote: “1 sub rolls FS 4. 1 hit no return fire”
I cannot see why it was possible for Italian Sub to get a FS, since US Destroyer blocked it.
Unless it is an NA?
No. The Italians had 2 subs against 1 US destroyer for 2nd round of combat.

Is it a special Wolf-pack attack which allows First strike for Subs when 2 or more, even against Destroyers?

No Italians had 3 subs attacking 1st Rd lost 1 sub do to US 1 hit
So Italy had 2 subs attacking 1 dest 2 Nd Rd so 1 sub gets a FS

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS:

@Baron:

You wrote: “1 sub rolls FS 4. 1 hit no return fire”
I cannot see why it was possible for Italian Sub to get a FS, since US Destroyer blocked it.
Unless it is an NA?
No. The Italians had 2 subs against 1 US destroyer for 2nd round of combat.

Is it a special Wolf-pack attack which allows First strike for Subs when 2 or more, even against Destroyers?

No Italians had 3 subs attacking 1st Rd lost 1 sub do to US 1 hit
So Italy had 2 subs attacking 1 dest 2 Nd Rd so 1 sub gets a FS

OK, I see.
Destroyer are blocking on a 1:1 basis.
Italian Subs being 1 more than US DD, 1 First strike allowed.

For how long do you use this FS rule for Subs vs DD?

[General 6 Stars]

@Baron:

@SS:

@Baron:

You wrote: “1 sub rolls FS 4. 1 hit no return fire”
I cannot see why it was possible for Italian Sub to get a FS, since US Destroyer blocked it.
Unless it is an NA?
No. The Italians had 2 subs against 1 US destroyer for 2nd round of combat.

Is it a special Wolf-pack attack which allows First strike for Subs when 2 or more, even against Destroyers?

No Italians had 3 subs attacking 1st Rd lost 1 sub do to US 1 hit
So Italy had 2 subs attacking 1 dest 2 Nd Rd so 1 sub gets a FS

OK, I see.
Destroyer are blocking on a 1:1 basis.
Italian Subs being 1 more than US DD, 1 First strike allowed.

For how long do you use this FS rule for Subs vs DD?

.

Every turn

[baron Münchhausen]

:)

My english got me.

I meant for how many games, did you use this rule?

[General 6 Stars]

@Baron:

:)

My english got me.

I meant for how many games, did you use this rule?

50 games. Been playing this rule forever in games. 1:1 block

[baron Münchhausen]

Wow!
This is kind of bullet proof in your games.
:)

[General 6 Stars]

Ya. Cant see 1 DD blocking 10!subs. What TH, DD can launch depth charges and fire shells  a 100s at a time. I didnt know this. Lol

Anyway why cant an AA gun get 1 shot in Attack only @1 up to three territories / SZ away. OR
1. If you get Rockets Tech you can decide between a SBR 1 d8 dam 3 spaces away or you can do a 1 shot attack only against ground troops or navy. Your choice. OR

2. Can SBR 1 d8 dam 3 spaces away against any facility. OR
Attack 1 plane FS with AA Rocket Gun 1 space away while ground troops are attacking same territory in combat.

This is to give the other countries more things to do in game. But this maybe to strong for game and yes kinda not historical for some countries. Was an idea for countries like Anzac Japan US could use.

[baron Münchhausen]

Med. Bomber
A 4d12s @2 ground only every round
A 2d12s @2 naval only every round
D 1d12  @2 or escape roll @2
M6
C10
Dog Fight @1  Every 1st round of combat only if enemy planes.
SBR 1d8 +1 damage
AA Gun D@2 against ea Med. Bomb

H. Bomber
A 3d12s @3 ground only every round
A 2d12s @3naval only every round
D 1d12  @3 or escape roll @3
M7
C12
Dog Fight @2  Every 1st round of combat only if enemy planes.
SBR 1d10 +1 damage
AA Gun D@1 against ea H Bomb

Did you try them?

What do you prefer: same combat value, different number of dice according to land, Sea, Defense or different combat value off land or Sea/ Def, same number of dice?

[General 6 Stars]

@Baron:

Med. Bomber
A 4d12s @2 ground only every round
A 2d12s @2 naval only every round
D 1d12  @2 or escape roll @2
M6
C10
Dog Fight @1  Every 1st round of combat only if enemy planes.
SBR 1d8 +1 damage
AA Gun D@2 against ea Med. Bomb

H. Bomber
A 3d12s @3 ground only every round
A 2d12s @3naval only every round
D 1d12   @3 or escape roll @3
M7
C12
Dog Fight @2  Every 1st round of combat only if enemy planes.
SBR 1d10 +1 damage
AA Gun D@1 against ea H Bomb

Did you try them?

What do you prefer: same combat value, different number of dice according to land, Sea, Defense or different combat value off land or Sea/ Def, same number of dice?

Ya I got 5 turns in game with them so far. With lower @ number makes them some what weaker on all. The over kill risk is lower. The naval attacks are a bit harder. Of probably 8 med bomber attacks only probably 4 kills. Couple bombers naval with no hits.

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS:

@Baron:

Med. Bomber
A 4d12s @2 ground only every round
A 2d12s @2 naval only every round
D 1d12  @2 or escape roll @2
M6
C10
Dog Fight @1  Every 1st round of combat only if enemy planes.
SBR 1d8 +1 damage
AA Gun D@2 against ea Med. Bomb

H. Bomber
A 3d12s @3 ground only every round
A 2d12s @3naval only every round
D 1d12   @3 or escape roll @3
M7
C12
Dog Fight @2  Every 1st round of combat only if enemy planes.
SBR 1d10 +1 damage
AA Gun D@1 against ea H Bomb

Did you try them?

What do you prefer: same combat value, different number of dice according to land, Sea, Defense or different combat value off land or Sea/ Def, same number of dice?

Ya I got 5 turns in game with them so far. With lower @ number makes them some what weaker on all. The over kill risk is lower. The naval attacks are a bit harder. Of probably 8 med bomber attacks only probably 4 kills. Couple bombers naval with no hits.

Still, the above odds are better for Heavy on Naval than below:

Med. Bomber
A 4d12s @2 ground only every round
A 4d12s @1 naval only every round
D 2d12s @1
M6
C10
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 +1 damage
AA gun D@2

H. Bomber
A 3d12s @3 ground only every round
A 3d12s @1 naval only every round
D 2d12s @1
M7
C12
Dog Fight @2
SBR 1d10 +1 damage
AA Gun D@1

[General 6 Stars]

@Baron:

@SS:

@Baron:

Med. Bomber
A 4d12s @2 ground only every round
A 2d12s @2 naval only every round
D 1d12  @2 or escape roll @2
M6
C10
Dog Fight @1  Every 1st round of combat only if enemy planes.
SBR 1d8 +1 damage
AA Gun D@2 against ea Med. Bomb

H. Bomber
A 3d12s @3 ground only every round
A 2d12s @3naval only every round
D 1d12   @3 or escape roll @3
M7
C12
Dog Fight @2  Every 1st round of combat only if enemy planes.
SBR 1d10 +1 damage
AA Gun D@1 against ea H Bomb

Did you try them?

What do you prefer: same combat value, different number of dice according to land, Sea, Defense or different combat value off land or Sea/ Def, same number of dice?

Ya I got 5 turns in game with them so far. With lower @ number makes them some what weaker on all. The over kill risk is lower. The naval attacks are a bit harder. Of probably 8 med bomber attacks only probably 4 kills. Couple bombers naval with no hits.

Still, the above odds are better for Heavy on Naval than below:

Med. Bomber
A 4d12s @2 ground only every round
A 4d12s @1 naval only every round
D 2d12s @1
M6
C10
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 +1 damage
AA gun D@2

H. Bomber
A 3d12s @3 ground only every round
A 3d12s @1 naval only every round
D 2d12s @1
M7
C12
Dog Fight @2
SBR 1d10 +1 damage
AA Gun D@1

Ya I crunched numbers too.

Old way was the question is how much of a reward u want to make the bomber kill.
Old way 2 Stg b rolled 2 rounds of combat and got 8 hits out of 16 rolls. The thing was it helped them take Calcutta but then in other battles like Europe it gave the allies the lil chance for same thing when they attacked Rome and naval and didn’t get the reward rolls.
I’ll keep it where its at for now.

[baron Münchhausen]

With the new way you get easy value to remember:
Medium: @2, all types of rolls
Heavy: @3 all types of rolls

It is too early to change something.
Also, the Calcutta raid was an oddity, India got diced.

[General 6 Stars]

@Baron:

With the new way you get easy value to remember:
Medium: @2, all types of rolls
Heavy: @3 all types of rolls

It is too early to change something.
Also, the Calcutta raid was an oddity, India got diced.

Ya I look at this way the bombers where finally accurate ! Lol

[General 6 Stars]

@SS:

@SS:

@SS:

@SS:

@SS:

@SS:

@SS:

@SS:

@SS:

@SS:

Med. Bomber
A 4d12s @2 ground only every round
A 2d12s @2 naval only every round
D 1d12  @2 or escape roll @2
M6
C10
Dog Fight @1  Every 1st round of combat only if enemy planes.
SBR 1d8 +1 damage
AA Gun D@2 against ea Med. Bomb

H. Bomber
A 3d12s @3 ground only every round
A 2d12s @3naval only every round
D 1d12   @3 or escape roll @3
M7
C12
Dog Fight @2  Every 1st round of combat only if enemy planes.
SBR 1d10 +1 damage
AA Gun D@1 against ea H Bomb

Tac Bomber  : Cannot land on Carriers.
A7 Can pick target with a return shot. Ground only.
A7 Roll of 3 or less can pick target with return shot. Naval only.
A3 against surfaced subs only. No return shot.
D5 Can pick target with a return shot. Ground only .
D5 Roll of 3 or less can pick target. Naval only.
M5
C11
Dog Fight @1  Every 1st round of combat only if enemy planes.
SBR 1d8 damage (Air - Naval ports, Train Stations and Oil Derricks)
SBR Kills AA gun on a roll of 3 or less
AA Gun D@2 against ea Tac Bomb

Naval Dive Bomber  : Can land on Carriers and ground.
A7 Roll 3 or less can pick target with a return shot. Ground and Naval.
A3 against surfaced subs only. No return shot
D5 Roll of 3 or less pick target with a return shot. Ground and Naval.
M4
C10
Dog Fight @1  Every 1st round of combat only if enemy planes.
SBR 1d8 damage ( Air - Naval ports, Oil Derricks)
SBR Kills AA gun on a roll of 3 or less
AA Gun D@2 against ea Dive Bomb

Naval Fighter  : Can land anywhere.
A5
D7
M4
C10
Dog Fight @3  Every 1st round of combat only if enemy planes.
AA Gun D@2 against ea N. Fig
Cannot hit surfaced subs.

Fighter
A6
D7
M5
C11
Dog Fight@3  Every 1st round of combat only if enemy planes.
AA Gun D@2 against ea Fig
Cannot hit surfaced subs.

AA Gun
A0
D@2 at each plane
D@1 at ea H Bomb only
M1
C5

Air Transport
A0
D0
M5
C10  Can transport 2 Elites or 2 Paratroopers or 1 Elite 1 Paratrooper in combat and any combination of 2 inf or 1 inf 1 art in non combat. If you get Paratrooper Tech can transport 3 units any combo. Only 2 inf or 1 inf 1 art non combat still.

Ger. Grenadiar build 2 starting T2
A4
D4
M2
C4
Can Blitz

SS Panzer build 2 starting T2
A7
D6
M2
C6

Tiger Tank build 1 starting T3
A7
D7
M2
C9 2 hits

IS-1 Russia build 2 starting T3
A7
D7
M2
C6

Elite Inf
A4
D2
M1
C3    Build 2 only per turn. NA for US-Italy can build 3 a turn

Paratroopers
A2-3  A3 FSR only on AMP ASSLT
D4
M1
C3     Paratrooper Tech- Can air transport 3 Paratroopers

Art
A4
D4
M1-2 towed by Mech and SPA
C4

SPA
A4-5
D4-5  Tank  boost +1 on A/D 1:1
M2
C5  Can tow Art and blitz

German Wolf Packs 2 or more subs attacking.
A6  FS
A7  FS if get NA Wolf Pack or Sub Tech get A7 FS  D3
D2
M2
C7
Subs cannot hit subs
Subs can submerge after DF or Tac FS
Subs doing FS have to stay surfaced.
Cannot submerge until next round of combat.
Submerged subs after 1 round of combat can
1. Resurface
2. Stay Submerged
3. Escape @3. Place on map same sz.
If escape roll fails Sub has to resurface.
Surfaced subs can be taken as casualties.

Subs
A5  FS  Sub Tech - A6  FS  D3
D2
M2
C7
Subs cannot hit subs.
Subs can submerge after DF or Tac FS
Subs doing FS have to stay surfaced.
Submerged subs after 1 round of combat can
1. Resurface
2. Stay Submerged
3. Escape @3.  Place on map same sz.
If escape roll fails Sub has to resurface.
Surfaced subs can be taken as casualties.

Battleships
A9
D9
M2
C15   2 hits

Cruisers
A7
D7
M3
C9

Destroyers
A3
D3
M2
C6
Can pick 1 of 2 choices per round of combat.
1. Depth Charge A or D submerged subs @3 only.
2. Attack or Defend on the surface only.

Carrier
A2
D4
M2
C14   2 hits

Transport
A0
D1  at plane only if not taken as casualty
M2
C7
ES2 only if Transport is alone and being attacked by
only subs or planes and is not killed per round.

Japan doesnt receive H. Bombers.

This has been updated.  June 6 D-Day 2018

[baron Münchhausen]

In your game MedBomber 4 @2/12 carpet bombing is a real one each combat round.
Same odds as OOB 4/6, but it is 4 rolls @1. Acting like 4 infantry attacking.

I will try to crunch on this special roll.
4 Infs @1 means 4/6* up to 4 hits for 16 strength points (pipshit) while one regular bomber is
1 roll @4 means 4/6 up to 1 hit for 4 strength.
2 roll @4 means 8/6* up to 2 hits for 16 strength.

So, Med bombers are like twice stronger than OOB G40 StB, assuming same cost.
Because you have more rolls for same odds, you can reduce faster the enemy defending stack for the same attacker sustaining capacity.

To make them even with OOB, in D12, it needs 2 rolls @2/12 for 42 hits = **8 points of strength in D12s pipshit**
Or, mostly, 3 rolls @1/12 for or 3@1/123 hits = **9 points of strength in D12s pipshit**

But you only have 1 hit of sustaining power per bomber…

I think I’m slowly understanding this particular type of dice mechanic.

---

Comparing both Medium:
A 4d12s @2 ground only every round
A 2d12s @2 naval only every round
and Heavy bomber:
A 3d12s @3 ground only every round
A 2d12s @3 naval only every round

Keepings D12s pipshits
Medium Bomber
4 @2 means 8 pips up to 4 hits for 32 strength points or pips*hit
2 @2 means 4 pips* up to 2 hits for 8 pips*hits
1 @2 means 2 pips* up to 1 hit for 2 pips*hits

Heavy bomber:
3 @3 means 9 pips* up to 3 hits for 27 pips*hits
2 @3 means 6 pips* up to 2 hits for 12 pips*hits
1 @3 means 3 pips* up to 1 hit for 3 pips*hits

This means Medium bomber are more efficient at land units even if less accurate (smaller odds 8/12) than Heavy (9/12) and can be better to lower down enemy stack.

If I compare with YG 3@ 5/8 or 3@3/8.
5/8 means in D12s pips 7.5/12
3/8 means 4.5/12

StBs on land:
3 @7.5 means 22.5 pips* up to 3 hits for 67.5 pips*hits for 1 round only

StBs at sea:
3 @4.5 means 13.5 pips* up to 3 hits for 40.5 pips*hits for 1 round only

[General 6 Stars]

But you would be amazed how much u dont get hits. Remember we lowered I believe from 4 d12 @3 I think. Id have to go back and look.

[General 6 Stars]

@Baron:

In your game MedBomber 4 @2/12 carpet bombing is a real one each combat round.
Same odds as OOB 4/6, but it is 4 rolls @1. Acting like 4 infantry attacking.

I will try to crunch on this special roll.
4 Infs @1 means 4/6* up to 4 hits for 16 strength points (pipshit) while one regular bomber is
1 roll @4 means 4/6 up to 1 hit for 4 strength.
2 roll @4 means 8/6* up to 2 hits for 16 strength.

So, Med bombers are like twice stronger than OOB G40 StB, assuming same cost.
Because you have more rolls for same odds, you can reduce faster the enemy defending stack for the same attacker sustaining capacity.

To make them even with OOB, in D12, it needs 2 rolls @2/12 for 42 hits = **8 points of strength in D12s pipshit**
Or, mostly, 3 rolls @1/12 for or 3@1/123 hits = **9 points of strength in D12s pipshit**

But you only have 1 hit of sustaining power per bomber…

I think I’m slowly understanding this particular type of dice mechanic.

---

Comparing both Medium:
A 4d12s @2 ground only every round
A 2d12s @2 naval only every round
and Heavy bomber:
A 3d12s @3 ground only every round
A 2d12s @3 naval only every round

Keepings D12s pipshits
Medium Bomber
4 @2 means 8 pips up to 4 hits for 32 strength points or pips*hit
2 @2 means 4 pips* up to 2 hits for 8 pips*hits
1 @2 means 2 pips* up to 1 hit for 2 pips*hits

Heavy bomber:
3 @3 means 9 pips* up to 3 hits for 27 pips*hits
2 @3 means 6 pips* up to 2 hits for 12 pips*hits
1 @3 means 3 pips* up to 1 hit for 3 pips*hits

This means Medium bomber are more efficient at land units even if less accurate (smaller odds 8/12) than Heavy (9/12) and can be better to lower down enemy stack.

If I compare with YG 3@ 5/8 or 3@3/8.
5/8 means in D12s pips 7.5/12
3/8 means 4.5/12

StBs on land:
3 @7.5 means 22.5 pips* up to 3 hits for 67.5 pips*hits for 1 round only

StBs at sea:
3 @4.5 means 13.5 pips* up to 3 hits for 40.5 pips*hits for 1 round only

YG numbers should be higher due to only one round of combat