@SS:
Im just leaving it where its at.
I agree, more playtests will eventually says where there a tweak will be needed.
What are you going to do with Battleship? 15 or 16 IPCs?
This might be the only case where the most expensive can be stronger than any other due to high IPCs invested. In addition, you cannot conquer land with it anyway.
@Baron:
@SS:
Im just leaving it where its at.
I agree, more playtests will eventually says where there a tweak will be needed.
What are you going to do with Battleship? 15 or 16 IPCs?
This might be the only case where the most expensive can be stronger than any other due to high IPCs invested. In addition, you cannot conquer land with it anyway.
Battleship
A9 A6 shore
D9
M2
C15 2 hits
And what are your carrier values?
I will note both in my Excel file.
@Baron:
And what are your carrier values?
I will note both in my Excel file.
Air Craft Carrier
A2
D4
M2
C14 2 hits
I added it to the list.
I don’t fully understand the aircraft AA gun roll.
Is it for SBR only?
Is it for both SBR and regular combat?
Can you please develop a bit the game mechanic. (I read a few previous posts, but it is fragmentary.)
Your AAguns values are?
I think they work both in SBR and reg combat, you don’t have in built IC’s AAA.
So, the same AAgun may fire twice in a given turn: SBR phase and resolve combat phase.
Give me all details so I will include in my sheet.
Naval Dive Bomber : Can land on Carriers and ground.
A7 Roll 4 or less can pick target with a return shot
D5
M4
C10
SBR 1d8 damage ( Air - Naval ports, Oil Derricks)
SBR AA gun only A4
AA Gun D@1
This one has no dogfight value and no special roll on defense.
I think it is incomplete.
@SS:
@SS:
@SS:
@SS:
@SS:
@SS:
@SS:
Med. Bomber
A 4d12s @2 ground only every round
A 2d12s @2 naval only every round
D 1d12 @2
M6
C10
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 +1 damageH. Bomber
A 3d12s @3 ground only every round
A 2d12s @3naval only every round
D 1d12 @3
M7
C12
Dog Fight @2
SBR 1d10 +1 damage
AA Gun D@1 against ea H BombTac Bomber : Cannot land on Carriers.
A7 Can pick target with a return shot. Ground only.
D5 Can pick target with a return shot. Ground only.
M5
C11
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 damage (Air - Naval ports, Train Stations and Oil Derricks)
SBR Kills AA gun on a roll of 4 or less
AA Gun D@1 against ea Tac BombNaval Dive Bomber : Can land on Carriers and ground.
A7 Roll 4 or less can pick target with a return shot
D5 Roll of 3 or less pick target with a return shot
M4
C10
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 damage ( Air - Naval ports, Oil Derricks)
SBR Kills AA gun on a roll of 4 or less
AA Gun D@1 against ea Dive BombNaval Fighter : Can land anywhere.
A5
D7
M4
C10
Dog Fight @3Fighter
A6
D7
M5
C11
Dog Fight@3AA Gun
A0
D@2 at each plane
D@1 at ea H Bomb, Tac & Dive Bomb
M1
C5Air Transport
A0
D0
M5
C10 Can transport 2 Elites or 2 Paratroopers or 1 Elite 1 Paratrooper in combat and any combination of 2 inf or 1 inf 1 art in non combat.Ger. Grenadiar build 2 starting T2
A4
D4
M2
C4
Can BlitzSS Panzer build 2 starting T2
A7
D6
M2
C7Tiger Tank build 1 starting T3
A7
D7
M2
C9 2 hitsIS-1 Russia build 2 starting T3
A7
D7
M2
C7Elite Inf
A4
D2
M1
C3 Build 2 only per turn. NA for US-Italy can build 3 a turnParatroopers
A2-3 A3 FSR only on AMP ASS
D4
M1
C3 Paratrooper Tech- Can air transport 3 ParatroopersSubs
A5 FS
D2
M2
C7Battleships
A9
D9
M2
C15 2 hitsCruisers
A7
D7
M3
C9Destroyers
A3
D3
M2
C6Carrier
A2
D4
M2
C14 2 hitsTransport
A0
D1 plane only if not casualty
M2
C7
ES2 only if Trans is aloneJapan doesnt receive H. Bombers.
This has been updated. April 16, 2018
These values are for next game. We will see if H Bomber A against navy is to strong.
Does Fighter and Naval Fighter lose Anti-AAgun roll?
AA Gun D@2 ?
Naval Fighter : Can land anywhere.
A5
D7
M4
C10
Dog Fight @3Fighter
A6
D7
M5
C11
Dog Fight@3
I completed your D12s sheet, and correct a few cells with wrong references… Sorry
I put in yellow high and low numbers in Naval roster.
Looking at how Carrier is weak compared to other unit like DD or Cruiser, I tried a few things.
Like increasing Carrier defense or lowering Naval planes cost.
It seems that lowering Naval to 9 IPCs and Land-based to 10 IPCs might be an interesting possibility.
That way the best full Carrier with 2 Fighters reach (1.00), the same as Destroyer.
Maybe, expensive full Carrier compared to strength might give an harder time to UK and USA.
I’m just talking.
There is probably other factors in game which might compensate for weaker full Carrier, like Cruiser M3 which outweighs this limitation. And also, USA has more money to spent, so overall adding a few warships around Carriers to protect them is easier to do for US Navy.
Happy game.
;)
ENIGMA_Vann formula_Cost vs Odds_Roster charts_D6_D8_D12_D10.xls
@Baron:
Does Fighter and Naval Fighter lose Anti-AAgun roll?
AA Gun D@2 ?Naval Fighter : Can land anywhere.
A5
D7
M4
C10
Dog Fight @3Fighter
A6
D7
M5
C11
Dog Fight@3I completed your D12s sheet, and correct a few cells with wrong references… Sorry
I put in yellow high and low numbers in Naval roster.
Looking at how Carrier is weak compared to other unit like DD or Cruiser, I tried a few things.
Like increasing Carrier defense or lowering Naval planes cost.It seems that lowering Naval to 9 IPCs and Land-based to 10 IPCs might be an interesting possibility.
That way the best full Carrier with 2 Fighters reach (1.00), the same as Destroyer.Maybe, expensive full Carrier compared to strength might give an harder time to UK and USA.
I’m just talking.
There is probably other factors in game which might compensate for weaker full Carrier, like Cruiser M3 which outweighs this limitation. And also, USA has more money to spent, so overall adding a few warships around Carriers to protect them is easier to do for US Navy.Happy game.
;)
AA still shoots at them. I just left the @1 for other planes on list so there was 2 places of reference.
Ok.
I did not understand that subtle difference.
AAA gun shot @2 vs Fighter and Medium bomber
but shot @1 vs Heavy and Tc Bombers, right?
And there is only TcB which get a responding fire against AA gun fire during SBR.
Nothing else, right?
@Baron:
Ok.
I did not understand that subtle difference.
AAA gun shot @2 vs Fighter and Medium bomberbut shot @1 vs Heavy and Tc Bombers, right?
Yes plus Dive Bomber
And there is only TcB which get a responding fire against AA gun fire during SBR.
And the Dive Bomber too
Nothing else, right?
Right
OK.
I revised all corresponding values in dogfight casualties too.
See file above.
I tweaked numbers for these pieces. Not easy to get every thing close with Med Tank without raising A D values up.
Med Tank
A6 2.00
D6 2.00
M2
C6
Germany only
Grenadier Build 2 only starting on T2
A4-5 3.00 3.75 +1 Art
D4 3.00
M2
C4
Can Blitz.
SS Panzer Build 2 only starting T2
A9 2.20
D8 1.96
M2
C7
Tiger Build 1 only starting T3
A10 2.45
D9 2.20
M2
C7
Russia only
IS-2 Build 2 only starting T3
A9 2.20
D9 2.20
M2
C7
Does Tiger really cost 7?
I see that limiting production is a useful tool in your roster.
Clearly.
Otherwise, Tiger would spam the map.
Grenadier have no blitz capacity, right?
@Baron:
Does Tiger really cost 7?
I see that limiting production is a useful tool in your roster.
Clearly.
Otherwise, Tiger would spam the map.Grenadier have no blitz capacity, right?
NO Can Blitz
These pieces have been in game since start. So Id say at least 12 games so far.
Using ENIGMA-Vann tool is helping more when there is a lot of ground units doing similar things.
You meant they have blitz?
With no limit, Grenadier all the way!
😈😈😈
@Baron:
Using ENIGMA-Vann tool is helping more when there is a lot of ground units doing similar things.
You meant they have blitz? YES Can Blitz
With no limit, Grenadier all the way!
😈😈😈
@SS:
I tweaked numbers for these pieces. Not easy to get every thing close with Med Tank without raising A D values up.
Med Tank
A6 2.00
D6 2.00
M2
C6Germany only
Grenadier Build 2 only starting on T2
A4-5 3.00 3.75 +1 Art
D4 3.00
M2
C4
Can Blitz.SS Panzer Build 2 only starting T2
A9 2.20
D8 1.96
M2
C7Tiger Build 1 only starting T3
A10 2.45
D9 2.20
M2
C7Russia only
IS-2 Build 2 only starting T3
A9 2.20
D9 2.20
M2
C7
@SS:
@Baron:
Using ENIGMA-Vann tool is helping more when there is a lot of ground units doing similar things.
You meant they have blitz? YES Can Blitz
With no limit, Grenadier all the way!
😈😈😈
So, here is my purchase order for M2:
Grenadier,
Tiger,
SS Panzer,
Regular Tank.
Is it what you want?
More Grenadier build up all along the game.
Germany roster might be very colourful on map.
Interesting historical depiction.
@Baron:
@SS:
I tweaked numbers for these pieces. Not easy to get every thing close with Med Tank without raising A D values up.
Med Tank
A6 2.00
D6 2.00
M2
C6Germany only
Grenadier Build 2 only starting on T2
A4-5 3.00 3.75 +1 Art
D4 3.00
M2
C4
Can Blitz.SS Panzer Build 2 only starting T2
A9 2.20
D8 1.96
M2
C7Tiger Build 1 only starting T3
A10 2.45
D9 2.20
M2
C7Russia only
IS-2 Build 2 only starting T3
A9 2.20
D9 2.20
M2
C7@SS:
@Baron:
Using ENIGMA-Vann tool is helping more when there is a lot of ground units doing similar things.
You meant they have blitz? YES Can Blitz
With no limit, Grenadier all the way!
😈😈😈So, here is my purchase order for M2:
Grenadier, C8
Tiger, C7
SS Panzer, C14
Regular Tank. C6
= 35 icp
Is it what you want?Been in Games since start. Have played 12 games so far. Not as over powering as you think. Still need inf buys, Art, transports, repair damage to IC’s and so forth.
More Grenadier build up all along the game.
YES 2 every turn pretty much mandatory.
Russia can off set it too with there IS-2 buys. Plus Russia setup key too. Russia strong in game. to a certain point. Only way Russia can lose Moscow is a major push with Germany and Italy. But then UK be licking there chops with US help in Europe. Remember Germany can only build 2 units in Yugo (2) (minor IC) matched to territory value in builds. So they need more fast movers if they dont buy trannys or they loose trannys from US H. Bombers. or need to buy Destroyers for protection. Also there is no Airbase in Berlin. If the US bombing gets to out of control may add one. But now bombers a lot weaker on attacks against navy so may not need to. Have to see.
Always wondered why there never was an airbase printed on map for Berlin and Rome.
I think I will add them to game. The rest of Capitals have them. Besides if Germany wants to send transports to Finland or Lengingrad they should have to protect them anyway. Airbase only used for +1 move or defense of home fleet.
Im gonna look at map now and see what the possible outcome would be with an Airbase in Berlin and Rome.
