If you are playing Revised with a bid then one possibility is to add a 2nd G transport to the Med fleet instead of adding units to Libya/Algeria. It doubles the transport capacity and can make the Russian player weary on an amphibious attack on the Caucasus/Ukraine.
Like mentioned above the drawback is that additional units sent to Africa won’t be used on the Eastern front and the 2nd transport will be sunk with the rest of the fleet if the Allies decide to do so.
German navy
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@Imperious:
Thank you sir.
may I have another?
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As I mentioned in another thread…
My 1 AC, 1 TRN purchase on G1 placed in SZ14 has worked very nicely for me in my current game (UK is in the mid teens income).
Of course, the US went into the Pacific in force, so not a really valid test for its value in a full KGF…
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I tried the ac and transport in my game and my opponent did a KGF strategy. My navy was destroyed under a wave of destroyers and fighters. Although there were numerous lucky rolls but I should have still lost.
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details?
What turn?
What was used?
Did you get to shuck stuff to russia? did that work in your favor?
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I think what IL is really saying is details man, give us details! Ain’t that right IL? :wink: :-D hehehe
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Honestly, and no offense to you classic strategy folks, but I really see no need to augment the Germany navy. I see a lot of strategic arguements AGAINST augmenting the German fleet, though.
For instance. If you do not purchase a navy, England is extremely tempted to hit SZ 5, but all they have are expensive fighters and bombers. Those are fighters and bombers they will NOT have after the battle and will either have to rebuild (tough if they are down Africa) or do without (more likely, assuming Africa is gone.)
Meanwhile, Germany’s out a couple of submarines and a destroyer they most likely never would have used anyway. The transport is a shame, since it does add flexibility to your troop movements in Europe. But even the loss of that vessel isn’t going to make or break you.
On the flip side, with just a bid of 2 IPC to Germany, you are making 14 Infantry. That’s nearly double what Russia is putting down in Round 1, and added to your 8 armor you start with, is a significant punch to push on Russia early. Or, if you don’t have a build, 12 Infantry and 1 Artillery works nearly as well. Still 13 Units almost double Russia’s output that round (if they went all infantry, which I hardly see, so you most likely did double their unit production) and fairly safe.
After all, it’s going to take America 3 to 5 rounds to set up her infantry stacks. It will take England 3 to 5 rounds to get up to optimum production as well, assuming she wants to bring the fleet up from the Indian Ocean. That’s 3 to 5 rounds you have to maul Russia and keep her in the 150 IPC range on unit count while keeping the German unit count up in the upper 200s lower 300s. (Yes, roughly 2:1 IPC army values in your favor. Remember, I advocate a 3:1 ration if at all possible, but we’re talking 3 to 5 rounds, not a lot of time to get up to speed unless you’re NoMercy who, for some reason, whenever he plays me is capable of getting Germany to 50 IPC in 1 round, without cheating. :P )
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It doesn’t have to take UK/US that long - me and CC are playing a team game right now where UK has taken WEU w/ 3 Inf 6 Arm in UK 5, and US will be landing 5 Arm 5 Inf and perhaps a few Ftrs to reinforce.
So that’s what UK/US can do in 5 rounds.
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@froodster:
It doesn’t have to take UK/US that long - me and CC are playing a team game right now where UK has taken WEU w/ 3 Inf 6 Arm in UK 5, and US will be landing 5 Arm 5 Inf and perhaps a few Ftrs to reinforce.
So that’s what UK/US can do in 5 rounds.
Gee, Frood, thanks for the free preview of the U.S.'s turn. :-D (Too bad I didn’t check this before turning in Japan’s fifth turn. :|)
And Switch, umm, why do you think the US went KJF when it saw all that Germany Navy? :lol: Maybe 'cause Germany was sucking wind for a few rounds?!
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@froodster:
It doesn’t have to take UK/US that long - me and CC are playing a team game right now where UK has taken WEU w/ 3 Inf 6 Arm in UK 5, and US will be landing 5 Arm 5 Inf and perhaps a few Ftrs to reinforce.
So that’s what UK/US can do in 5 rounds.
Gee, Frood, thanks for the free preview of the U.S.'s turn. :-D (Too bad I didn’t check this before turning in Japan’s fifth turn. :|)
And Switch, umm, why do you think the US went KJF when it saw all that Germany Navy? :lol: Maybe 'cause Germany was sucking wind for a few rounds?!
Well it can’t be that much of a surprise - what with building 5 more TRNs on US 4…
Hans: Vy do yoo tink de Yankees bild soo many boots?
Frans: Ich don’t knoh. Vielleicht zey ah havink yacht races?
Hans: Ja das ist probably was es ist, Ja.
(conversation ends in deluge of Allied bombs and bullets…)
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Also, that’s what I HOPE the US will do - CC may also decide to leave the British 1st Army out to dry and pursue other adventures… :(
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@froodster:
It doesn’t have to take UK/US that long - me and CC are playing a team game right now where UK has taken WEU w/ 3 Inf 6 Arm in UK 5, and US will be landing 5 Arm 5 Inf and perhaps a few Ftrs to reinforce.
So that’s what UK/US can do in 5 rounds.
I don’t understand your objection. I said it would take between 3 and 5 rounds for the Americans and British to get up to full speed and then you said you could do it faster and that faster pace is in 5 rounds?
Faster would imply you can set up an effective invasion force in 1 or 2 rounds and that, without a bid to be the allies, is impossible to my knowledge.
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Taking and holding WEU is a little beyond “getting up to speed”, that’s all.
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For instance. If you do not purchase a navy, England is extremely tempted to hit SZ 5, but all they have are expensive fighters and bombers. Those are fighters and bombers they will NOT have after the battle and will either have to rebuild (tough if they are down Africa) or do without (more likely, assuming Africa is gone.)
Meanwhile, Germany’s out a couple of submarines and a destroyer they most likely never would have used anyway. The transport is a shame, since it does add flexibility to your troop movements in Europe. But even the loss of that vessel isn’t going to make or break you.
The single most common outcome of 2 Fig, 1 BMR vs. an unreinforced Baltic fleet is UK winning with 1 Fig and the bomber surviving. Though if Germany does not submerge the subs, taking them as casualties instead, he has a pretty good chance of nailing the 2nd fighter. But in any case, the Bomber survives 65%-70% of the time, so it’s not like the UK is down ALL its planes after the attack in most cases. And with the Baltic navy sunk, both the US and UK can start strong landings in Europe sooner, which is more valuable to the Allies than a couple of UK fighters.
After all, it’s going to take America 3 to 5 rounds to set up her infantry stacks. It will take England 3 to 5 rounds to get up to optimum production as well, assuming she wants to bring the fleet up from the Indian Ocean.Â
I’m not bringing the Indian Ocean navy up if I’m UK. That navy’s job is to hinder Japan as much as it can until it dies, and/or to help retake Egypt from Germany.Â
In most games where germany does not reinforce the Baltic fleet at all and I sink it on UK1, UK is landing three TRNs of stuff in Norway on UK2, 3-4 TRNs of stuff somewhere in Europe on UK3, and 4 TRNs of stuff from UK4 onward.  And since the UK and US combined dumped 4 TRNs of stuff in Algeria on UK1/US1, Africa generally stays in UK hands.
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@Imperious:
details?
What turn?
What was used?
Did you get to shuck stuff to russia? did that work in your favor?
I did get to “shuck” stuff at russia which was nice, and the extra tranport helped infantry get online against russia alittle earlier. but I think a detroyer and a tranport would have had the same effect plus given me 6 IPC’s extra…sooo
I was destroyed on turn 2 or 3. i forget. I’ll look back at my notes.
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a good german navy is a navy that destroys at least one RAF piece before it goes down.
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What if you moved the baltic fleet to sz 7. UK can either do an all out attack with air and fleet, attack with just fleet or air, or just leave it alone (very doubtful). US can also bomb later if its worth it. The point being, this gets my fleet moving. Now if the “Average” result happens, then I pry took a fig and or Transport with me and I’m destroyed. Not too big of a difference than before, but if things go well for me than I have a real chance of unifying the fleet. If the fleet is unified, then I’d add maybe a destroyer and sub or something. Something to make the Allies not want to park in sz 12. Helps keep Afrika Deutschlands. And on the flip side, if my fleet gets destroyed, nothing new happend. If UK uses their fleet then I probably will get 1 trn and keep them from hitting Norway or Algeria first round anyways. I don’t use my transport that much either.
In conclusion, if things go well, then fleet unification and make some modest Navy buys.
If things go to crap, I say screw it and stay with my normal German strategy. For some reason, whenever I play, it always gets destroyed on UK 1 anyways. If its gonna be attacked, why not atleast give it some hope if it survives.
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UK is blocking at SZ#6… if the baltic fleet stayed in the Baltic for G2, then UK and USA catch up because your then dealing with 2 full turns of builds… Each turn the Allies get stronger, while the axis only bought the g1 fleet buys and spent 40 IPC (1 CV and 3 AP). Uk just gets in position to exchange AND gets the ability to kill one of your stacks at its leasure once the medd fleet moves out. They cant combine on the same turn of UK is in SZ#6 unless the baltic fleet decided to attack. If they stay put then UK and USA attacks anything moving out of the medd.
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@Imperious:
UK is blocking at SZ#6… if the baltic fleet stayed in the Baltic for G2, then UK and USA catch up because your then dealing with 2 full turns of builds… Each turn the Allies get stronger, while the axis only bought the g1 fleet buys and spent 40 IPC (1 CV and 3 AP). Uk just gets in position to exchange AND gets the ability to kill one of your stacks at its leasure once the medd fleet moves out. They cant combine on the same turn of UK is in SZ#6 unless the baltic fleet decided to attack. If they stay put then UK and USA attacks anything moving out of the medd.
Not sure if you are replying to me, but if you are, Im suggesting you move out first turn thus UK is not blocking you and that you do not buy unless either you are not attacked or get lucky with the dice.
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are you better off just buying infantry to defend your shore rather then buy navy?
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are you better off just buying infantry to defend your shore rather then buy navy?
That depends on the board position.
If the Allies have kicked Germany’s ass in the Atlantic already, newly produced German navy just dies, so infantry is the ONLY way to go.
If the Alllies haven’t kicked Germany’s ass in the Atlantic already, Germany can use its navy in various ways.
It’s not a matter of “infantry > destroyers zomg lolz” or “subs >> tanks HAHAHA”. Good decisions depend on the board position!
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