@spectre_04:

…  Just an example of how the luck of the dice in reference to technologies can really make your game!!!

Yuck!

Let’s play yahtzee!

Lots less set up, same luck

Thanks guys.

The numbers look fairly even to me.  I don’t think there is much of a question that the Axis start out with the ability to do a ton of damage in rd 1 and can realy put a dent into the Allies.  Germany can smash multiple Russian territories with Russia being limited in countering and Japan can really go crazy.  So I think that the Axis need to severly outnumber them in terms of IPC and do so for several turns.  Remember the supply lines for Japan (to Moscow) have been extended.  I don’t think an Allied deficit of 10-15 ipc per turn is that bad (maybe Axis 120, Allies 105), however, if you get into the 20-30 range for multiple turns then it is bad news.  Anything under 10 can be potentially be written off by dice (ie when one lone inf hits on def, or maybe 2 inf hit out of 3-4, bom shot down due to aa, etc).

So I still think that for the most part the longer the game goes the better it is for the Allies.

I think one of the biggest factors is how quickly can the Allies kill the Italian fleet.  If you get it by round 3 or 4 you are in good shape, anything after that and you might be pressing your luck.

Just had an 8 hour game with the 1941 setup. We played with NOs and techs enabled and I was Allies.
G starts by buying 7 inf and 2 researchers. It then attacks the CA and DD, the single DD and the 3 russian territories. G attacks Egypt with the BMR but it fails.
Russia counterattacks and retakes Baltic and Ukr. It moves 4 inf into China and masses all the inf on Bur.
J attacks EE, Borneo, Philippines, US BB and DD/TRN plus 3 chinese territories. It leaves the DD/TRN off India alone.
UK buys 1 IC for India and builds a carrier. The BB land units on Algeria.
Italy buys 1 DD and counterattacks on Algeria.
US starts building a fleet on the Pacific and gets 2 researchers.

From that moment on, the game went like this:

G and R were trading territories. G managed to conquer Karelia once but couldn’t keep it. Besides fighting G, R managed to sent some 9 tanks to help in China. J tried to attack India on J3 but failed due to the AA shooting 3 planes out of 5. Meanwhile it built some ships to counter the US buildup and had to deal with the Chinese and the Russians on China. After defending China, the UK moved to Burma and kept attack FIC. This, and conquering both Norway and Finland, securing Africa and liberating EE and Borneo (the Indian TRN went back to Australia and a US TRN moved from the Solomon) gave the UK a massive income (+50). Italy tried to attack the UK fleet off Algeria and lost big time. The US fleet eventually grew to 3 ACs, 1 CA, 2 DDs, 4 SUB. When we decided to end the game it had attacked and sunk the J fleet off Japan with the help of 8 jet fighters and 1 BMR (against 2 AC, 1 BB, 2 DD, 2 SUB and 4 FTR).

The game wasn’t really decided at the end, we stopped because of getting really tired but it was really interesting, although the Axis made some bad mistakes.

@Nix:

Norway is very difficult to take back if lost.  The Allies could take it and keep it.

But 2 rtrn, and ac g1, then it will be hard for Brits to hold norway.

So you’d hold it (maybe - UK can build more planes in response), but this is becoming a very costly endeavor.  That’s 41 IPCs worth of income for the IC and ships.

You’re pitting Germany’s income more directly against the UK’s, a fight which Germany could potentially win, except that Russia is going to have a big edge in the Eastern Front.

@Bierwagen:

Nice review – thanks for taking the time!

@Comassion:

The Russian sub became an expensive annoyance by wandering around in the mediterranian, denying me a badly needed 5 IPC bonus for several turns.  I even bought a destroyer to deal with it, and he attacked and sank the destroyer (I should have split my fleet to protect it, I invaded the Caucasus by sea that turn but I could have spared a cruiser).

Good catch, thanks.  I could have just ignored the thing, would have been handy.  It’s my fault for not carefully reading my own NO.

Only fly in the ointment that I saw – Subs don’t deny Italy the NO and the 5 IPC.

“control all of the following territories: Italy, Balkans, Morocco/Algeria, and Libya,
and no enemy surface warships are in sea zones 13, 14, and 15.
(See Sea Units, pg. 28 for information on surface warships.)”

So, don’t let him get away with it next time ;-)

Good catch.  That error was my fault for not carefully reading my own NO.

…and the east indies are two squares away from from the transports off of the caroline islands.

Played this out this weekend

Result: Turn 7 ended the game as Axis had more production +50% and more units on board…

Allied Strategy was a KGF + a token resistance in the Pacific…

What shall I say - Italy Killed a S and UK fleet twice in the Atlantic (turn 3+4 after securing the Med including Gebel al Tarik…

Germany was constantly harrassed by the Soviet and lost Scandinavia early to the Brits…
(Turn 7 all western russian territories were in Russian hands, (Stalingrad was held by
Germany)

Territories east of Moscow were almost all in Japanese hands.

japan ignored SU and China for 3 turns (mostly only put enough Inf to discourage an attack)

Japan spread into the Pacific (I must admit a little gamble- it put 9 ships 3CVs+5ftrs vs 7 ships 2Cvs+4Ftrs and won because of some real great rolls (IIRC it lost the fighters, but nothing else - maybe a DD).

BTW crusiers seem to be better than we first thought - if DDs absorb damage they are excellent units)

Italy once captured Canada! (shortly after thrown out by the US, but this and constant invasions to Alska prevented the US to build up a naval fore after the Pac and AT fleets were sunk)

Uk quickly lost all Pac+Asian posessions and Africa was slowly eaten by Italy (which really shone this game - a few early fleet builds (CA+Tr + a few dds) while ignoring the SU.

Both sides made some serious blunders (Japan only seized an empty borneo at turn 5, Russia maybe waited to long to attack German tank forces - maybe an attack a turn earlier and hoping for a few 1s would have turned the tide)

US should have built up MORE pacificx sea units and waited a few turns (1-2) before it attacked IT/GE…

UK - NO more ICs in the Pacific/India - Japan can muster enough force to capture them even if it holds it with ONLY 1 unit - UK can’t get it back…

UK did bomb GE, but repairs were quick to follow…

In the End JP had 3 Fleets - a large off Alaska

A small DD fleet in JP proper to defend against possible bomber threats. and a medium south pacific fleet (AU was conquered on turn 6 - with an IC UK could hold it and even pose an potential threat with a small DD+TRP fleet)

Germany focused on Stalingrand and never came to attack to Leningrad as UK went to Scandinavia (I will do it again) and so Russia could build up before Germany could strike - UK even amph landed at the baltic states…

An observation - If any nation went after lone Transports (it sunk them) - the Ftrs would have probably decided another battle in this nations favor - so my advice - use a few subs for thios duty…

So my solution - KGF is dead - Japan grows too fast - Japan soon had no markers left for occupied territories…

NO favor the winning side ;)

Here’s the way I usually approach the Axis in the first AA.  I think it translates over into the 2nd AA as well.

1.  You start off poor so keep your expensive units.  Don’t throw them away for short term gains, because once they’re gone, they’re gone.  You can’t afford to rebuild them. 
2.  Take out the British Navy, all that’s possible without losing airforce… or if you do lose airforce, make sure that England is losing something like a battleship.  If they can keep the fleet they’ll be able to land all along the coast.  This is bad, and is pretty much the end of the game for germany.  It will mean you’ll need to defend along the coast, plus have either some airforce or tanks ready for a counter attack… because if they want something, they can take it with the RAF getting in the attack.
3.  Expand fast, but try to only lose infanty in battles.  If when you caluclate odds you’re calculating that you’ll lose tanks/fighters… it’s not worth it.
4.  With the new game, study the bonus production criteria… aim to take it away from your opponent.  It’s like a guide to what your opponent will do, plus it shows you how to stop them… for example…

Japan:  Has to take an English territory in it’s first turn or England gets extra production.
Germany:  It’s about either Karelia or Caucassus.  Take one or the other, but try to take one at all costs.
Italy:  Brazil is undefended and the USA gets extra production, if it’s available and undefended, might as well nab it.

There’s an easy solution, move the RAF fighters onto Karelia.  Problem solved.

It’s one turn of 5 less production for Russia… well, 3 really, since losing Karelia is 2.  It’s not a big deal.  That 5 bonus is for when Russia’s strong enough, which they aren’t at the beginning as everyone has shown.

Remember Germany also gets 7 (2 for the territory and 5 bonus) production from Karelia, and can start producing armies there.  That’s a huge negative, because without that factory the German line gets stretched out and weak on infantry.  The negatives from losing it are steep, very steep.

@Woodstock:

In Revised, the Indian IC pretty much always was a bad idea, as Japan could simply react on it on J1.

Unless playing minor victory (which is better balanced than major victory), wherein an Indian factory is essential.

@Woodstock:

And to get back on topic: I think the key difference here opposed to Revised is that in AA50, UK moves after Japan.
If Japan moves away from India, going for the China or Russian route, it might be very liable to buy an Indian IC at UK1.

In some ways, Japan going first hinders the Indian factory.  If UK went first, they might actually get to build in the IC before Japan can capture it.

You could also set up a trap for allied navies, by sinking the dd and leaving your subs posted there.
If, by any chance, the german player was to be attacked by an english navy that would not dispose of a destroyer, they could trap them by submerging prior to the battle and coming back to attack the fleet on their turn, using planes togheter with the subs.

I don’t exactly remember the initial setup of the game and if uk disposes of a lot of destroyers, but in my opinion, this tactic could work at least once against inexperienced players.

The tactic described here is the basis of a KGF strategy. It only works to go to France on turn 2 if Germany does the IL tactic of building all tanks and going for Russia.

You force the Germans to take back France instead of mini-me (Italy) and thereby weakening the power of the Moscow push severly. However indeed you need 8-10 units of UK to force the Germans to commit. 2-4 units won’t work since Italy can take care of them.  :wink:

Lynxes, you are so right, bombers are such a tremendous force now that they only cost 12.
with the new system you can seriously cripple an economy with 3 bombers.

And by experience, I think it is important to invest in the pacific as USA if the japanese go for a mitghy naval force. You gotta give them a decoy to go after, and maybe try to get it to China/India to keep the huge japanese navy busy.
It will be actually expensive but might save you from a japanese invasion.

but I disagree though about the Indian IC. I guess it’s important to prevent japan from becoming too strong. with the uk fighter in Africa and the russian tanks they might spare on turn 2-3, you can possibly keep it alive if the japanese player went with some conquests in China.

or just good, old europe Blitzkrieg
so tanks + bombers/fighters
with some inf, to trade like ukraine and such

We are talking about the lovable india’s ipc!

The italians may take gibraltar = no bombing p:

Also i don’t see many games doing that!

Purchases: 2 tanks, 7 Infantry

I honestly haven’t found an effective G1 set of attacks for the 41 scenario, even if I do take Ukraine and the Baltic States, it still feels like a paper thin front, idk maybe someone will come up with a new set of plans for ze Germans.

No, it takes a tanks its entire movement to load and unload from a transport.

If the plane is not hit by the ship, then yes both the ship and the transports would be destroyed.

Mine is 9 I believe.