@TG:

@Romulus:

Casualty system in A&A is part of the success of the game.
Simple enough for not being too much time consuming but at same time allows for cannon fodder and protection of the expensive units.

If we condsider the real battle attacker do not “know” who are they firing. WW2 was not fought with Napoleonic style battles where 2 armies lined up one in the face of the other.
In WW2 units are camouflaged, entrenched and hidden. When and if a unit is discovered by the enemy it can be target of fire, but attacker is not “selecting” the target among all the defending unit, only the one that has become visible.
So to some extent is the defender, positioning an moving its units, that allow the attacker to fire.

The more “correct” way of picking casualties is the one used in Battle of the Bulge, random selection, with the possibility of overkilling one unit and totally missing another.

If we can not have random casualties then we should stay with the “defender pick the unit to be removed” mechanism.

I am Moses Obama and I endorse this message.

Thank you!

I think that in Anniversary it is the right system. House rule or other ruleset may use different casualties removal system  but it is the right thing for the “standard” game.

@Gallo:

@Krieghund:

@Gallo:

2.a) they shoot before the attacker, and if roll at 1, if they score attacking unit sinks before having the chance of attacking – if attacking unit is a BB she can take the torpedo hit and attack anyway, but if it’s a Cruiser she goes to the bottom right there without dropping a single deep charge.

This is true if there’s no attacking desrtoyer.  If there is an attacking destroyer, the sub fires at the same time as the attacker(s) and the results are simultaneous.

yes, as I’ve stated, I was assuming no enemy destroyer attacking.
buy what does it means that “the sub fires at the same time”?
1.Attacker rolls
2.Defender select casualties
3.Defender moves casualties to casualty zone
4.Defender (subs) rolls
5.Attacker selects casualties
6.Everybody removes casualties.

that’s how it is, right?

Yes.

@Gallo:

@Krieghund:

@Gallo:

2.b) can submerge after attacker roll

If there’s no enemy destroyer, subs may submerge instead of rolling.  This can be done in any combat round, including the first, so a sub can submerge instead of firing before the attacker fires if desired.

yes, I’m always assuming no enemy destroyer attacking at this point…
but again, just to clarify:

If an attacking fleet with no destroyer moves into a sz defended by a submarine… the submarine can just choose to submerge without fighting? I mean: nobody fires? not even a first round?
Example: four British Battleships moves into a sz where there is just one single German submarine to attack it (I know that British can ignore it, but say that they want to sink that annoying U-Boat)… and the German sub can chose to submerge avoiding even the first attack?

Yes.

@Gallo:

@Krieghund:

@Gallo:

If there’s a destroyer present, subs can’t do their sneak-attack (2.a doesn’t work), and they can’t submerge

True.  They then fire at the same time as everything else.

again, by firing at the same time you mean the 6 steps mentioned above, right?

Yes.

From what I’ve heard, this game might have to cater to the vets, just because of all the rule problems and stuff people have been mentioning with the game. Might get too frustrating for a noob.

@Bierwagen:

Unfortunately, I haven’t seen any games under 7 hours either.  Ours actually tend to roll longer… lots of drinking and smack talk involved.

LOL It’s funny cause’ it’s true!!

How is the logic as it applies to the real world at all relevant? Is it not simply a matter of game play balance? There are an endless number of unrealistic elements in all axis and allies games, so picking on one, and not another, seems entirely pointless to me.

Oh hell yes! I havent been able to get a game together yet so I’m trying to get all the info I can to update my group so we’re all up to speed.

Thanks.

I definitely think we’ll see some KJF’s or US Pac strats in time.  There are actually quite few things I’d like to try as the US, but it’ll just take some more games.

Also, you don’t have to actually kill Japan, just sink its fleet or keep it stuck in the Sz around Tokyo.  Once the fleet can’t move (or is gone), you can pick the easiest capital (still usually Germany in Revised) and take it out several rds later.

For example, I’ve had great success with a US - AC/ftr strat in Revised.  I see no reason why this can’t be attempted and used in AA50 (with modifications of course).

The general premise is to buy an AC and 2 ftrs every turn.  The ftrs can threaten multiple sea zones and once you move to Sol it becomes almost impossible to sink the AC without a massive commitment.  From there the US picks off the islands etc.

You still go after Japan and can get a feel for the Game.  How does Russia and the UK look?

Then immediately buy 1 AC, 1 ftr, + (subs/dd for fodder).

Rd 2 you can go 1 ac + 2 ftrs + ~12 ipc (for other stuff).

Japan has a mightly fleet to start, but they do have to take quite a few islands early.

Now the main question is can Russia hold out for 5-6 turns with only UK’s help and how poweful will Italy be with the US only commiting 2 inf per turn to Alg?

Another option I’d like to try as the US is some type of US Sub strat (talked about in other threads).

US 1 - buy 5 subs, 1 ftr
US 2 - buy 1 ac (+ ftr if needed), + 3 subs + other filler ships (or inf)

Essentially by US 3 you can have:
8 subs
1 dd (start with)
2 ac (1 start with)
4 ftrs (3 start with - maybe lose 1 in Pearl counter)
2 boms (start with)

Here you spent 62 IPC (8 sub + 1 AC), and you should have ~26 more ipc to spend (rd 1 - 40, rd 2 - ~48) meaning maybe you buy 1 more sub, 1 ca, 1 dd.

That is a 14 ship navy with 4 ftrs and 2 boms.  If Japan commits to trying to sink it, it will take quite a bit of effort.  Again the downside is:  can Russia hold out for 5-6 turns with only UK’s help and how poweful will Italy be with the US only commiting 2 inf per turn to Alg?

Also can the UK help with any of this? 
And just how much early help does Russia need?

These last two questions will depend on what will eventually become the “standard” G1 open, so Russia and UK can coordinate the best counters.

I wouldn’t rule out an Aus IC or Safr IC combined with US Pac strat but I’m usually not a fan of the early extra IC.  An Ind IC just seems like it might be too tough to hold, but you never know.

i don’t think so, i think if like brits take baltic states, that it turns british
i’ll look it up fast :-D

If BGG has it out there already, well hell.

This is 3MB smaller and better quality:

http://www.savefile.com/projects/808699222

~ZP

tcnance - This thread may help you also; it has a list of rule changes that Krieghund made.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=12932.0

@Markus:

i know a german warship can move thru a sea zone that has 2 UK transporters without having to stop

Are the transporters automatically destroyed?

No.  You must stop and attack a transport in order to destroy it.  Just moving through the sea zone won’t do it.

Remember that a capital manages infrastructure and IPC’s are representative of production and infrastructure. Even in war soldiers are paid as are the people who build their weapons. If Washington fell tomorrow how many of us can just get together with the nieghbors and build a tank? Not to mention the only thing of yours that would have value is hard goods and equipment. I f the Chinese invaded tomorrow do you think Canadians or Mexicans would except US dollars for guns?

That’s why I think the money should go back to the bank, or as cruel twist of fate, the assests are frozen and given to the loser’s allies as if they were a government in exile.

i just voted from my own experience of just setting-up the game once for each game (41 and 42)

China i beleive will not be avoided in -41 however -42 japan may have to choose!

Like in -41 japan has a chance to switch strats early in the game however if japan -42 wants to switch it will have a harder time.

So attaking china -41 is a not really a must but japan will gain like 4 billion more then its losses

@AxisOfEvil:

@Romulus:

Krieghund already explained that it is a problem of wording, the word selected “attack” should have been “surprise strike” or “surprise firing”, if I am not making a mistake.

I am not english born but I am considering that “surprise attack” has been not used to indicate the “attack” but the roll of the dice trying to hit the enemy. I do not see the need for a specification for the sub being in defense being able to perform a surprise strike. It is a sub ability to stay hidden and strike by surprise. It do not depend by the role in the battle, the sub is  aiming to hit the enemy in both case, attack and defense, acting in the same way: lurking below the surface, hidden and dangerous.

given this logic, which I am not disputing, why then do subs defend at 1 and attack at 2?  :)

same reason why fighters attack at 3 and defend at 4  :wink:

Except first rnd, Jap killed my BB, all US units went to Europe. The problem with the -41 scenario is that US must use much more ipc to build a sustainable fleet than in the 42 scenario. I did not play effective as allies though, with not killing German fleet UK1, I screwed US purchases etc. Maybe I played too aggressive with Russia, but I think Germany + Italy could take Caucasus anyway. Game wouldnt end if I didn’t take Berlin, unless the attempt was a failure :)
Axis player slowed Jap himself with not taking either Philly or Borneo and east Indies J1, but the Jap beachhead in Asia was as strong as the Normandy landings, so there is not really an opening to KJF, more than in AAR. SJF is important where it can be done. I killed a lone Jap trans with DD, these things are mistakes that will happen sometimes, until we get used to the new rules.

Let us know how it goes.  Good luck!

I’d like to just print the map onto something transparent and then shine lights from underneath.  But it would be interesting to have jumpers so that you can hit a nation’s turn, flip a switch and all their lights come on as well.

My original thought was a map with only a light blue film for ocean, all other territories just clear, that way each light could be lit for your nation when you control the territory.

Well, there’s two factors you didn’t mention (I dont have the game yet, so I am working from the bits and pieces of info I gathered so far).

UK starts with 43 IPC Germans with “only” 31, and only 5 planes.

That 43 British IPC allow you to buy a AC, and a factory (Eastern Canada). Merge your british remaining fleet with the newly built AC and put 2 Ftr’s on it. This will fend off any german aerial attack, or at least deminish the Luftwaffe if Germany does decide to strike on G2.

On UK2, start building transp’s in EastCan, and land units in London. Move fleet to EastCan for defensive measures, toss in maybe another Destroyer or so.

Sure, it makes it tougher for the British, and far from impossible.

That 43 IPC opens up a lot more other options aswell. AC + BB, Cruisers, whatever…